Umma08 - I glad you got to the end with a slight detour! I read that candidates who actually make it to the second submission normally make it. The problem is that it can be so disheartening that people often just drop out after they don't make the first viva. It is certainly the experience of a lifetime!

Help me keep this thread going with tips etc. I sort of want to get some the key messages 'out there'.

*how being older is likely to affect my chances of getting an academic position at the end of my PhD*

This is a tricky issue. It is easier in some research fields than others. In Law, for example, there is a still a big demand for law teachers which leads to higher recruitment in the field.

I was mature-ish, and something I found difficult is that a lot of younger people are superior to me. However, I guess that is just the nature of working life.

PhD is a great experience however!

It has been 4 months now, how did it go?

Thanks all.

The funny thing is that I have never really left this thesis behind. Even though it was not a very good critical argument, it did contain many, many hours of research. One way of looking at it is to say that it was 'raw data'. That is, I had masses of uncritically analysed research.

I have now written two articles based on thesis, although only one is published. They certainly contain critical argument now. I learnt that lesson the hard way.

OK - you do need to talk someone in the department. Don't expect them to criticise a colleague, but they will probably put some steps in place to help. What I mean here is that a measured email (I recommend an email to the HoD with the Director of Postgraduate Research copied in) will at least put you on the radar and probably encourage them to help you. What you won't ever ever ever get is 'tea and sympathy'. It's important you know that.

Also you should be given detailed corrections to effect from your external. No? If not, talk to your HoD. Explain that you need guidance to follow. They might organise it.

John

I think you are mad not to have a framework for an analysis. That's essential.

Well done lemonjuice. You've been a great presence on here.

Keep us updated. This also happened to my friend recently.

Sorry I got to this late. I hope it went well.

With regard to original contribution: both 'application of a new concept' and 'examination of an existing model' are original. My problem was that I did neither in my thesis. There was nothing critical (evaluative) in my thesis. Instead, I had unearthed a lot of new information and written it down. It was a digging exercise. 2 years on I do get it. Factual discovery is not OK in the social sciences.

With regard to my own experience: my examiners (sort of) took pity on me. They saw that an enormous amount of work had gone into the 'digging exercise' and told me to make it critical. That gave me three months of pure hell - evaluating what I found. The task was made much easier by the fact that they gave me detailed corrections. In fact they basically told me what to do (e.g. 'be critical at point X').

Also, I was in post by the time I took my viva. I was on a temporary contract and so if I'd not passed, I'd probably have lost my job. Who knows, that might have been a factor.

Thanks Mackem_Beefy. Yes, it turns out that people do actually read the thesis. More than a year on, I have reflected a lot. I think the best way to view a viva and corrections is as part of a *learning process*.

You're a difficult customer!

I've finished my thesis corrections now. I'm pretty sure that my internal examiner didn't even read them. I did improve the thesis significantly, but it will pretty much languish unread in future. I think that's the fate of many theses.

I've learnt a lot. I submitted too soon, but also the project wasn't well conceived. It wasn't critical/evaluative. That's not to say it wasn't complex, or hard, but it wasn't what is conventionally seen as doctoral research work.

Still, I like technical writing. I won't give up on it. And for the future, I've learnt a lot of lessons.

I'm doing my thesis corrections now. They are going OK. My externals were quite good and provided a relatively straightforward 'to do' list. It reads like 'insert critical here' and 'insert critical comment there'.

For me, corrections have been just like having another 3 months on the thesis. Funny thing is, I'm not actually sick of it. Although when I get bored, I have been procrastinating a lot!

*Plays Flappy Bird*

Dr littleowl: that's great news. Congrats.

AislingB: cheers!

Fled: thanks very much, nice of you to say!

lizziejamescaroon: thanks! :}

You are stuck with your supervisor come what may. It's just luck of the draw. You do need someone expert to take a look at it though. If you have a strong thesis, then you just need to be told that. But if there are some problems, you also need to know that so that you can correct them.

That's nice of you! I might have taken a bit too long to get there. I guess once you learn how to write 80k words, it's difficult to lose the habit ;)