What does everyone think of the UN report describing Britain as the worst of the developed countries for children to grow up in? Why are we so (allegedly) crap?

I'm especially interested to hear what you non-Brits on the forum think, since you've got wider experience. I've only ever known the UK.

Well if you take a look around you (at the British childred) what do you see?

I personally see a lot of badly-behaved, illiterate, spoilt little thugs.

I think we have a very good education system, unfortunately you have to WANT to want it for it to be any good.

The main problem is the parents. They give the kids too much of everything and many aren't exactly good role-models are they?

On the other hand, there isn't much for teenagers to do in UK towns: people complain about them loitering on streets and shopping centres, but when I was a teenager there was nothing else much to do.

I think part of it in some towns (certainly in the sh*t town where I grew up) is lack of anything to pull you out of yourself: no industry, no culture, no higher education facilities. If no-one ever inspires you with anything, you may think that getting pregnant at 13 is as good as life gets.

I heard a debate on Radio 4 saying that there were serious holes in that research. But I was half asleep at the time and cant remember what they were

I know that the UNICEF report's findings are dubious - because Tony himself said so (interview with Andrew Marr on SUnday morning BBC1). The data was old and a even that was related to the previous 5 years (I think). Basically, it's out of date.

As usual, it's only an element within society and actually, most kids are good kids. It is largely down to parents - I don't fully accept the argument that people are stuck where they're born and must remain there, it's to do with a work ethic - you get out of life what you put in...

Also, people's expectations have risen out of all proportion, so much so that most throw around comments like 'there's nothing to do', convinced that there isn't. Every school does extra-curricular sports and music, every leisure centre offers a variety of activities (cheaper than a packet of fags or bottle of cider), scouts/guides still exist, new skate parks etc are springing up all over the place, arts funding ensures theatre/dance/music groups ESPECIALLY in deprived areas - you do just have to get out there, it doesn't even require much imagination...

Last thing (for now) - I saw a black man in his early 20s being interviewed on the news in Moss Side today (following weekend shooting. He was (commendably) part of an anti-gun organisation. I was so disappointed in what he was saying though, he was going on about the lack of investment in the area etc. Well, I grew up there and was there on Saturday incidentally and right where he was stood (but out of camera shot) there is a brand new, huge, modern, well resourced city academy, HUNDREDs of new homes around the corner, parks, museums, galleries... I'll stop now.

Insomniac, I agree with most of what you say, but have to disgree about schools. Mine provided absolutely nothing in the way of school clubs or extra-curricular activites. Even turning up to lessons was too much effort for some of the teachers.

Re: leisure centres; they are there, but some kids just don't have the money. I think things like this should be offered free: gyms make enough money from adult fees, they could give the kids a break.

I'm not sure about the leisure centres either. I enjoy sport but my boyfriend and I have to fork out nearly £8 for 40 minutes on a badminton court. I remember that being out of my reach when I was 15. It may not be much more than a packet of cigarettes, but its still a lot of money.

Hmmm, I don't know what the solution is!

Don't know when you went to school juno, but it WAS like you describe when I was at school too. Now, however, the govt. has targets for every school to provide before and after school care (called extended hours). Schools are offering many more clubs these days also because their provision is reported on by OFSTED.

Our local leisure centre offers kids (10+ I think) their own swim sessions for just £1 as well as other subsidised activities - I'm sure it's not just here. Scouts costs £1 a week and they do all sorts (climbing, rowing, camping, orienteering... usually included in subs).

Maybe it's just that some kids are 'too cool' to join in.

15 years since I left school I'm getting old.

Well, I hope schools have got their act together; they shouldn't have got away with it for so long.

Scouts are one thing, too, but I think it's more teenagers that are in limbo. They're too old for scouts/guides, too young for pubs (and should they really be encouraged to be the next generation of pissheads anyway?) And they are automatically assumed to be troublemakers: no wonder they're annoyed with society.

One question: would it not be more useful to think about possible changes in society and to take the study and its specific observations on board instead of debating "holes" or limitations of its validity?

Personally, I don't care much if Tony himself announces that the study is worthless, who would not do the same in his situation?

" I know that the UNICEF report's findings are dubious - because Tony himself said so "

Well, here we are again. The UK completely ignores any sort of criticism, unfortunately a society cannot improve for the better if everybody pretends everything is great.