My relationship with my two PhD supervisors was strained (to say the least). I desperately need 3 references to apply for a postdoc, my supervisors agreed to provide one each, but I'm pretty sure they'll be damningly lukewarm if not outright bad.

I tried to get a reference from my undergraduate thesis supervisor, who would give me a good reference, however he retired in 2004 and I've been unable to contact him.

Any advice on how to deal with this miserable situation?

======= Date Modified 09 May 2009 12:10:23 =======
People generally don't write bad references these days (too many possible legal implications). It's part of a supervisor's duty to provide references and help guide you with respect to taking the next step.

For another reference, try your personal tutor from your undergrad days. If your tutors etc. have left, then contact the HoD and request they do it, but provide lots of information to make their job easy. Once again, it's part of their role to write references for students.

Another alternative, is to use contacts from academic conferences you have presented at.

Most people are only too happy to provide a reference as long as you are very detailed about the job particulars.

It's not exactly a miserable situation!

Assume they will provide bad references. I've had chats at conferences but can't remember names, much less call on anyone for a reference. A reference from an undergrad tutor is a possibility though so thanks for the suggestion.

My CV is bloody marvellous, and it seems ridiculous that after years of blood, sweat, and tears (literally), that my future could be impacted by a couple of opinions.

Maybe try the head of research or postgraduate studies? You're more likely to be a statistic to them, as it's a less personal relationship than a student/supervisor one, and it would look better for the department's alumni stats if you did ok elsewhere.

If your CV is 'bloody marvellous' then maybe a lukewarm or non-committal reference won't make much difference. Presumably your 'genius' is evidenced in publications or elsewhere, which should help you. Otherwise, you'll just have to live with it as life is hard sometimes, as you've helpfully pointed out on other threads today.

Hi Supergenius, out of curiosity (and an eventual ambition to be in your shoes one day i.e. to apply for a post-doc, not the ref trouble) when you say you have a great CV could you elaborate a bit on what kind of things you've managed to put on it? And congrats for doing this! :-)

======= Date Modified 09 May 2009 14:01:33 =======
I'm far too humble for that. Hah! The point being that my CV isn't the problem, my supervisors are.

SuperGenius - Missspacey hit it on the head - too many legal implications of a bad reference. Defamation of character extends to references (I think!)
Typically most references are written in standard format (time spent in dept., work done, general line or two on punctuality). Most times the supervisors are too lazy and will get you to type out a template and they sign it.

Possibly reading too much into situation and unless you really f**ked up, most supervisors will be ok (I think we place more emphasis on the personal relationships than the other way about).

This will not happen, but in the unlikely event of not getting the first post-doc post, ask why (you are entitled to).

Yep Bonzo, there is a risk that a referee can be sued for defamation of character, other implications under the law of negligence, discrimination law, the data protection act can also arise. Uni's and big companies now have reference policies in place, so generic templates will be used that offer very little opinion on the candidate. This is a bit of double-edge sword as info. on the candidate is then often gleamed from an unofficial phone call to the reference contacts.

A bad academic reference will be one comprising of very little information.