Hi all,

Need some comforting words or to hear other people's experiences. I met some young academics in both the US and the UK who are working in my small field. They all seem to know each other and are more advanced in their careers (I'm still finishing my PhD), and I can't recall if I had done anything rude but it seems like I am being shut off from these circles. It could or could not be related to a time I had to say no to one person's offer of collaboration (I just wasn't ready) but I have not ever said or have done anything to offend any of these individuals. I'm noticing now, that if I ever reach out to them via email or social media I am getting zero responses or acknowledgements, and am noticing that they only speak to others who are already published or prolific in academic blogging. Have I done something truly wrong in rejecting 1 offer from 1 person? Should I even care? Has anyone else experienced the feeling of being shut out of small academic cliques?

You saying 'no' may well be the cause of this. By doing this, you may seem aloof to the others in your community and word can get round I guess.

I can relate a little to the above, simply because of my not so great second post-doc (no, I won't go through the story again :-) ). People will work around you rather than with you, dismissing or ignoring your ideas and input. My crime was being "very much a second choice, a stop gap measure" with the second post-doc Uni. "just having to make do" (said by the senior Prof. in charge on our first meeting on starting the post-doc). All I could do was seem my time out and move on.

Alternatively, a person might express ideas outside mainstream thinking in your subject area or simply be associated with the wrong group or department. During PhD, I was warned not to have any associations with a 'maverick' scientist working on the fringes of our subject area. He turned up at my Uni. unannounced one day, with the senior academics not acknowledging his presence. It's a bit difficult ignoring someone when he plonks himself in one of your offices. :-)

As to you not caring, it depends upon your work. You still have access to the literature being produced by these other researchers, thus can still work on the data they produce. From the perspective of preparing your PhD, it's not a deal breaker. However, if you are looking to work with any of these groups after PhD then things could be more problematic. This will be the true test of whether or not you're no longer in the loop.

All said and done, it may just be you're seen as a new starter with little to contribute as yet. Perhaps they'll take more notice of you when you become "Dr.". :-)

Ian

Hey Charlie...

I can too relate to your experience. The people I worked with in my PhD were also a miserable lot. So bad that friends visiting me at my department would say they'd seen more life at a graveyard! haha...(not funny in reality). They had some sort of internal hierarchy BS going on where if you weren't working with stem cells/carbon nanotubes then you weren't worth speaking to...considering I was working with human cell lines only, boo to me! I personally could not give a flying, but people at my department were this petty!

It might not have anything to do with you having said no for a potential collaboration, they might just be that miserable, but then again the people who are like what you described might just be that petty. I too was shut off from group lunches/drinks after work etc (I'd sometimes go weeks having not spoken to anyone in the office/lab), yet when I brought in some cake after a milestone birthday they all plus the most miserable one of the lot felt very happy to take a piece!! I didn't have it in me to say no (come to think of it, why did I even take in cake?!!), but straight after she scoffed the cake down there was the trademark scowl and cold shoulder. Whatever.

For the sake of your own sanity, don't care. You will eventually get away from these misery guts and you'll be fine :)

Charlie.
You should not care. Scientific and technological progress happens where it is least expected. The university labs are full of types of snobs. I used to work with a guy who believed 95% of people he saw at any given day, did not matter to him no matter who they were and what status they had. I am not saying this is a correct behaviour, make the first move, be friendly and open but once you feel you are being ignored, just ignore them.

Mackem, Default, & KimWipes....thanks so much for the reassurance. It's true, I think in order to move on mentally and emotionally I have to just not care if these people are being petty with me (or snobby --or both, which is not cool). My partner told me to just keep on working, writing, publishing, and being nice to everyone. I'm sorry you all had or have to go through the same thing, Academia can be a weird and uncomfortable place and it seems we all need to learn to navigate it as best we can by concentrating on our research and keeping our heads down. If anything, these other petty academics just seem disappointing. Thanks for the kind words again :)

Yup, just ignore as best you can whilst you finish your PhD.

A major problem with academia is some of the more senior people are virtually accountable to no-one, hence there is no check on their behaviour and they can become seemingly all powerful. There is thus a tendency for people to keep their heads down to avoid a confrontation with lets say the "personality professors".

Such people have to commit a serious misconduct before action is taken by the reputation conscious Universities. That said, you do get to hear of some spectacular downfalls at times and I suspect space 39 in the below make be very, very loosely based on a "tale" I heard. Hope it makes you smile. :-)

Ian

Yup, just ignore as best you can whilst you finish your PhD.

A major problem with academia is some of the more senior people are virtually accountable to no-one, hence there is no check on their behaviour and they can become seemingly all powerful. There is thus a tendency for people to keep their heads down to avoid a confrontation with lets say the "personality professors".

Such people have to commit a serious misconduct before action is taken by the reputation conscious Universities. That said, you do get to hear of some spectacular downfalls at times and I suspect space 39 in the below make be very, very loosely based on a "tale" I heard. Hope it makes you smile. :-)

Ian

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Yes, it most definitely made me smile!! Haha, thank you for this amusing 'board game'. I'm forwarding this to my peers for sure.

There's undoubtedly some odd personalities in academia, but also lots of lovely people. Often the mediocre are the nastiest. Keep plugging away and producing and people will notice you and want to collaborate.