Hi folks, my first post to the community... how many of us feel that not every PhD DESERVES to be a scientist and why?

Welcome to the board. I'm not sure anyone ever said that having a PhD automatically made you a scientist, did they? As per usual, depends what your area is. In terms of mine, as I'm doing science I would hope to be called a scientist. But then if I was doing a PhD in drama I probably wouldn't be calling myself a scientist. However, to keep peace and love on the forum, we can all be called academics (before anyone starts the arts vs science stuff again, which has be done too many times).

Hi..well , let me rephrase my question. I am a student of science, and I have seen many people around me who are also pursuing a PhD in a scientific field ...but when I look around, I feel that many of them should not be a scientist even though they may be intelligent enough but lack the aptitude needed for what science stands or used to stand for. what will be more beneficial for science?

It seems quite a general comment.
1) not all PhDs will do science afterwards
2) there are different working styles
3) I see a PhD as training and being at the bottom of the academic ladder with a long way to go

"lack the aptitude needed for what science stands or used to stand for"
What do you mean by this?

"what will be more beneficial for science?"
Different approaches and opinions so that theories are explored thoroughly enough to find out new information
There probably are a few "bad" scientists but I'm sure not everyone around you is!

A scientist is merely someone who has an interest in and as a consequence aims to learn about a particular science subject. Einstein was a postal clerk (no formal training), for example. I reckon anyone with a passion or interest in science deserves to be a scientist.

I agree. I think it's a combination of state-of-mind (inquisitive and likes learning) and aptitude. A PhD isn't essential. But it probably helps with the more technical stuff that science uses these days.

veritas, what is your definition of a scientist?

Hi guys, I will answer H's question first and I guess that is where my original question and the frustration stems from.My view of science is that it is one field which can be steered to glory or just pure confusion depending upon the attitude or nature of people who play a role in it(from a technician to the head of the lab). When someone says that he or she is a "scientist", i automatically assign a lot of qualities to them: intelligence - of course, but along with it honesty, humility, passion and selfless work where the only aim is progress of knowledge, answering relevant questions. And of course, I have seen very little of that so far. So I wonder, are there any people out there like that..or was this something that existed a few decades ago...?

Many of the researchers here have said that they see their work as a hobby rather than a job: of course they need to pay the bills, though. Several of them are retired and working for free, though, including my second supervisor.

I don't really care about other PhD's - I don't mean that in a rude way.. but if other people did a PhD, good for them.. if they didn't... well, it's their life choice and I don't think any differently about them..

Hence why I don't think I've ever thought about a PhD in terms of a scientist.. I did computer science, but I don't think of myself as a scientist.. one of my mates did a PhD in Latin/ Classics.. I don't think of her as a scientist.. I think of her as someone who is crap when drinking more than 2 pints...!

"honesty, humility, passion and selfless work where the only aim is progress of knowledge, answering relevant questions"
Ahh I see more where you are coming from. I think it can be driven by funding and publishing as much as possible against your competitors.
I would love to just find out answers and for it to be less competitive and less about personal status. That's one reason for me leaving academia....

Yes, cc..publishing and personal status are becoming the primary focus now. what do you do..? how do you survive? I dont want to leave academia...