Hi guys,
I failed my final PhD viva and offered Mphil by examiners, I appealed against the decision and my appeal was rejected. I am so depressed thinking can’t decide, to walk away without any degree or to accept submission for Mphil with a new viva.
To get into employment, what I will say for the time period spent on failed PhD 4-5 years? Do I have to tell them all the truth? Bad supervision, appeal etc? Any suggestions as I have an interview in few days time.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Hi moon

Sorry to hear of your situation. I think it would be good to try for the MPhil if you can stand the idea.

I left a PhD two years in and walked away with nothing. I have since been an RA, done and MSc and am now doing a new PhD. On my CV I put the first PhD period down as 'Postgraduate Researcher'. I feel that's the most accurate and honest answer. It doesn't seem right to say 'Research Assistant' as I was not employed in a role of that title. If people ask I explain, but it's becoming more and more in the past now.

To be honest, if you're applying for jobs outside of academia, people might not even question it, as long as you show you were occupied doing something during that period.

Good luck with your interview.

I think Hazyjane's suggestion is the best way to phrase it. I'd try to avoid the word doctorate entirely if you can. If you are asked about it, don't give excuses, unfortunately employers never like that. It would be better to brush it aside, with something like 'I've decided that academic research was not for me; these are the skills I've gained from it and this is how I think they'd help me be successful in this role, about which I'm very excited.' Concentrate on getting across the positive not the negative messages, even if that's not at all how you feel.

Thank you very much for your reply and help HazyJane and Bewildered. I already have MSc degree and on my CV I have the same, Postgraduate researcher but I did not get the job of Lab technician a month ago as the panel of professors asked me the same question of 4-5 years of postgraduate research and which professor I was working with, and why he has not written reference for me. When I google my name, my ex supervisor has still my name with research topic and pics in his webpage as his PhD student although he has left that university which we were working.
The other academic from the same department which I have requested to send reference for me, I do not know, what he writes for me, although I have requested him to write something positive.(if I write RA and he writes I know her as a PhD student then?). Is there any polite way to ask that professor what he writes for me in references? or is it confidential.
HazyJane sorry to hear about your situation as well, but its good you find a new PhD, which I am thinking to do next if I did not get a job in science. How did you find good references? I am now left alone as I appealed. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Moon,

The advice HazyJane gives is sound. Pass the period off as a Postgraduate researcher, citing the skills you have learned and how it would benefit you in your new role. Always present whatever you have done positively.

You've been asked to resubmit for an MPhil subject to a new viva? It seems from what you say your work has been judged quite harshly. Also, you've no reference from your former supervisor, which suggests the PhD attempt has been a rocky one.

An MPhil is better than nothing and is still an achivement in itself, so unless time constraints prevent you from doing so I would accept the verdict and resumbit for the new viva. An MPhil will also strengthen the positive spin you can present on any job application you make.

The lack of a reference is a problem, as I found out after a disasterous second post-doc away from my PhD Uni. In my case, it was the last position I had thus the most important reference on my CV and also the Prof. in charge of me was very well known inside and outside academia.

The problems arising from my second post-doc were eventually (partially) overcome by me being offered some unpaid work by my former PhD supervisor (giving me a new last point of reference). I also ensured I had plenty good references from before the second post-doc to show I could not be judged by the second post-doc alone.

Could you do something on a voluntary basis to offset the lack of a reference from your PhD period?

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Thank you very much for reply Ian (Mackem_Beefy). yes, my PhD attempt was rocky one and taught me a lot, now thinking how to gain that courage again to resubmit for Mphil. I do not know where I should get a voluntary work? if I go to my same univ, I have to see all those junior students asking me what happened? and I do not want to repeat to them all my bad experience.
If I apply for research job, again I have to satisfy them with all that gap in my CV. Any way thank you very much for such a good advice, I will write to some academics for voluntary work experience, finger crossed to get any.

I think it's much easier to write 'Postgraduate researcher' on a CV when applying for jobs outside of academia or research since they are unlikely to ask any direct questions about what this means as they will just assume it's a research post. When applying for a job within academia however, the opposite is true: they know this isn't a real job title and are likely to probe further. Like Bewildered said, all you can do is be honest about it and try to show it in a positive light.

Moon I think treeoflife has hit the nail on the head. You want to avoid universities. That's where the issue is going to be very obvious. Non-academic employers are going to be more interested in your skills.

Nailed on. Current employment for me is in the real world outside academia.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

When I was considering leaving my PhD I was also wanted to move into a slightly different field. So I approached someone in that field with whom I'd done a short project with before, explained my situation and asked for advice. They had an RA post coming up, encouraged me to apply and I got it. As far as references go, the new PI understood my situation, and the old PI was probably grateful I didn't make a complaint about the department so probably gave me a good/neutral reference to get shot of me.

As far as doing another PhD goes... I'd encourage you to take a break from the process to reflect on what went well and what didn't from your first experience. Also to take some time to heal from the experience. I only returned to doing a PhD 2.5 years later when I'd put some of the 'hurts' behind me. There's no point in rushing into it.

As other posters mention, the term 'Postgrad Researcher' is absolutely fine outside of academia, but may raise questions within. It didn't affect my application for the RA post, the RA PI then wrote me a good reference for my MSc, and when I applied for the current PhD in the interview I was asked "Talk us through your CV". I did so, honestly but tactfully, and it wasn't considered a problem. If I'd been staying in the same field, however, it may have been more of an issue.

If you want to stay in academia, I would recommend that you approach any existing contacts you have initially, as they will know you and be more likely to give you a shot than a complete stranger.

Thank you very much for your advice guys. I will keep you all updated. I am thinking to accept Mphil offer and go for it.