I think if you were going to take other theses as models of style, you'd need to be pretty selective, seeing that some examiners are grouchier about this than others. For all you know if you've chosen one at random, maybe the content was great but the writing style was barely passable. Certainly I've read a few in my own area that would make your hair stand on end.
However, it's not a bad idea, I just think you might want to check out people's opinions about particular ones, or use published stuff as models.

All the recent posts from people who say they've been criticised for their writing have been interesting, because
every one of those posts was written in correctly punctuated and stylish English! I've seen some really shocking written English from native speakers at PhD level, but those people couldn't even write a forum post or email correctly (and I
know, cos I get sent bloody messages from them every day). You don't seem that bad to me (though granted, I'm not a professor of English).

I get frustrated when it comes to getting my writing 'corrected' I have more than one supervisor and each one of them wants me to write things in their particular style. So I give work to one and she'll give me corrections, then I give it to someone else and he will correct it (including correcting the corrections). Plus it's funny when I recycle bits of work and then the supervisors criticise their own previous corrections.

Something supervisors seem to forget is that everyone has their own style and have different vocabulary use when it comes to explaining things. I have seen some publications in journals with awful grammar and word usage; some of them have been written by scientists who are regarded as leaders in the field.

I agree with Juno. I'm far from a native speaker, though I admit, my country was British ruled at one time, and well, my mom's a professor of English literature, so 'technically' I'm a non-native speaker from a "developing" country...But my point is, that first, style is infinitely a personal issue and it varies infinitely as well! Second, there are loads (and believe me, LOADS) of native speakers who write pathetic English, grammatically correct but otherwise arrgh...

So, what matters, i guess, is the ability to put across your thoughts in a precise, concise, crisp and coherent manner that is comprehensible for people who would turn up in the first place to leaf through the pages of things as obscure as we deal in: The Annals of the Academy of Germanic Letters in Philosophical Physics or The Proceedings of the British Academy of Physical Philosophy or something on those lines!!!!!!8-)

my university runs an online academic writing course that allows you to work through it at your own pace, with sections on grammar, punctuation, style etc. i found this really helpful and it may be worth seeing if your uni does something similar?

i find the best writing (in journals, books etc) is the sort of writing that you don't have to think about as you're reading, if you know what i mean! the sort of writing that catches your attention (use of too much 'fancy' vocab, over-long sentences etc) doesn't flow very well, and i find that getting someone else to read your work (even someone who hasn't got a clue what you're writing about!) can help, as they can point these things out. i get my sis to read my writing (i am a scientist, she did languages, so she doesn't understand a word but is v good at grammar!) which is really useful.

I think that the main thing is to simply get on with it.......one way or another, to get your work done and have progress. Doing anything at all seems to get things moving. I am trying to relax into the final phase of my PhD because getting stressed out and worked up over it is going to have a very detrimental effect on the work. I don't do good work in that state, who does? My best work is done when I am enjoying what I am doing and engrossed in it. This is the state of mind I try to find everyday. Easier said than done of course, because who does not have a million outside pressures and concerns, pressures and concerns related to their PhD, the stress of the isolation, etc. Sometimes its just mind over matter...insisting to myself I am going to be in a good mood...:-s:-s:-s even on a day like today when I woke up with persistent migraine headache. ( stress no doubt!) A few hours later, I am chugging along, finding some things to make me laugh, organising to get on with a difficult task I have been avoiding, etc. Ahoy! Is that.....could that be......pirates? :p:p

Spoke to a few people y'day about it and it would seem that most of what is said here and what my friends said about writing (who have graduated from the same college) can be summed up as follows ...

1. Read your supervisors papers - see his writing style. Make it known to him/her that this step was done (feed the ego).
2. Read papers in your field/methodology - get to know the terminology and what specific journals look for.
3. Go out and get co-authorship if needed - at the end of the day, your supervisor will still get his name on the paper
4. Compare like with like - it is absolutely pointless comparing a first attempt at a paper to a paper written for a top ranked journal by leaders of research.
5. Be selective with the journals - if it is your first attempt, without being defeatist, leave the top ranked journals until you have established a name in that area of research
6. It doesn't hurt to read other tips - Elements of Style and other books are helpful.
7. Write everything down - Getting into habit of writing what is being done and needs to be done. Keep this recorded.
8. Give written reports to your supervisor and hound for feedback. He/she is being paid handsomely for the privillege of your intelligence and would have no guilt about hounding you.
9. A lot of humble pie will have to be digested as regards writing/getting feedback
10. Don't lose the cool - it is hard not to take criticism personally, but we just have to.
11. Most importantly - SMILE!!!

Thanks for the advise. When I get the chance at the weekend, I will compile the advice here and make a small report to be posted (a la Tips idea) as some nuggets here.

Just got a call from home - got the full grant which really eases the money worries so it just proves that it's swings and roundabouts!

"Getting the cards is luck: what you do with them is skill!"

If we were seperated at birth, that would be cool as I'd finally have a brother instead of being the eldest of 4 daughters :p

I did computer science BSc and PhD and oddly, in my BSc I didn't get pulled up on grammar at all - in all fairness it *wasn't* grammar... more 'technique'

For example - For ever single statement I wrote in my thesis, my 2nd supervisor would write ' Reference' .. or ' How can you back this up?' Even now, at work... when I write emails or process documents I think 'Can I justify this?' - it was a very useful thing to 'get into the habit of'

Also... for each paragraph - do I make a point? I had loads of red pen through parts of mine with the word ' waffle' on them or ' yeah but no but yeah but CRAP!' (good thing he is a good friend of mine) ... It was flipping tough and I have never cried so much through sheer *frustration* than I did in my last year of editing - but... it was 100% worth it.

You seem to have a very non-serious attitude to your PhD and personally, I would say - don't ever lose that. There are so many academics who seem to have their head firmly inserted up their rectum and others who think that once you have the 'esteemed' title of 'Dr'.. you have to act a certain way - Hell no. I was a bit of a muppet and had I not been so stubborn and listened to my 1st Supervisors advice slightly more or seen how my office mates were progressing, I don't think I would have gone over by quite so long.... so in hindsight, I should have given the PhD process more respect and worked *slightly* harder.

But sacrificing my weekends? my entire social life? No.. and that's one thing I don't regret - I'd strike a balance - maybe work 1 weekend out of 4... maybe work late 1-2 nights a week if needed.... treat it with respect but respect your own personality and if you don't like the way something is working - tell them.

I'm currently an IT Consultant - it's cool... pros and cons... people don't know I have a PhD as it's not really needed here and isn't on anything... Life is good though and I don't regret doing one at all (up)

Good luck, and should you ever want some chavvy PhD support, feel free to ask ;-)

There must be some sort of mid-gound between treating it as a 9-5 and a personal quest, I think: at times you will probably have to put in extra, but not so much that you drive yourself nuts. One of my colleagues (post-doc) refuses to do anything beyond 5pm, or anything outside of their strict job description (is creating a big stink at the moment cos a meeting went on till 5.30pm - imagine! - yesterday), which sometimes makes me wonder if I really need to be working late so much...who is right? The one who sticks to the rigid job description and won't go an iota over it, or the one who gives themselves a breakdown overdoing it cos it's their pet project?

Like the Buddha (or someone) said, perhaps it's the middle way that's best.

Put on the academic 'voice' just as an actor puts on a character. Think of it like a role-playing game. Works for me!

I think I could win an award for lack of sup input and attention and in the end you just have to decide whether you want this PhD or not and just get on with it. I do treat it like a job - my time is limited by family committments (and drink) so I have to. You have to find your own compromise. Technically I could work nights after I've put my daughter to bed but I just don't want to. I'd rather open a bottle of wine and watch TV or some other brain-free activity. Sometimes I do, and no doubt I will as I get closer to the finish line, but I try to keep evenings and Sundays generally work-free. But my work-time is just that. I'm at my desk at 9.30 and I work until about 6, 3 days/week and about 10-4 on Saturdays. So not a full working week. I'm just hoping for quality over quantity;-)

teeheee ! I like the title of this thread. Reminds me 'Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women' :p

I'm pretty lucky being footloose and fancy-free, as it were, at the moment: this PhD would probably be a nightmare if I had family commitments. With mine there are a lot of demands from industrial partners: we would lose our funding almost immediately if we didn't deliver the results, so late nights and weekends are unavoidable at busy periods. If you have a family I would not recommmend industry-sponsored PhDs!

Juno - I'm sure it's stressful but I think the reason I don't work longer hours is that I don't have the pressure of deadlines - except for the ONE. I think some ongoing pressure is a good thing - it's hard to keep up the momentum when no-one checks anything.

I also think, that I wouldn't have done this if I'd had my daughter first. Knowing myself as I do, I'd have known how I would struggle to have the time and energy for both. But then maybe it's just as well it was this way around as I wouldn't have both otherwise!

My self-discipline isn't really all that good - it's just age that has improved it.

You're definitely right there; if there are no deadlines at all it's really easy to drift. Some pressure is always a good thing.

I begin to think that these industrial types need to be more patient, though...more and more people that I know are having to look after elderly parents, which takes time away from work in the same way that looking after children does, and it's a problem that's going to get worse as the population ages. More flexibility is needed...or we students need to get the protection that employees get.

Have enjoyed reading your discussion, Juno and Smilodon. I think that moments and hours of my PhD work are brain-free....as I lose a lot of time on somedays searching for the right music on Youtube, or reading my horoscope in as many places as possible, or ( eep) reading the Daily Mail religiously. As far as deadlines, I am pretty good at meeting self-imposed ones, but this came out of the sort of unique circumstances of trying to balance a PhD distance learning with work, and having to make the best of the scraps of time I could carve out for study, and meeting strict submission of draft deadlines. I knew if I ever fell behind, it would be nearly impossible to keep up. That, and coming from a deadline driven profession, deadlines just click something in my head. They have to be met. Its nearly an internalised and knee jerk reaction to them. So I set my own, and try to keep to them, and now that as I am writing up there is the motivation to just be all done.