Hey, you sound like me a year ago. I was so unhappy on my phd (and remained so for most of the three years) and ended up being signed off with mental health issues for 2 months. My main supervisor managed to make me feel like I was lazy and afraid of hard work (which I am not and anyone who has worked alongside me and not sat in an office pontificating from afar will confirm) and showed little interest in my ideas/discussions. I very much have felt for most of this time that I was a worthless piece of s**t in the scientific community. This was reinforced even by some of the other postgrads who, to be honest, seemed to enjoy my freefall in the pit of failure.

Then, this year I had some data (nothing that I thought was good, amazing, etc - it was pretty average really) so I gave several oral presentations (i.e. outwith the department) at conferences - including the biggest in my field. I also took part in loads of public engagement stuff. I found that I was really good at engaging with the public (children) and then I found that at all the conferences I got loads of questions and 'big names' following me out the door to ask more questions! The difference in my self-confidence has been amazing and I have gone from feeling like I am just wasting everyone's time to feeling that I have something to contribute. What I am saying really is several things:
A) No all PIs are good people and yours might be making your depression worse by her lack of ability to give you reinforcement
B) Your PI is unlikely to change
C) You need to find your own reinforcement - why not look for opportunities outside of the department that involve science in some way and try volunteering on those - you can find ways to bring your science to the public and it is such a buzz when they like it, etc. You are welcome to PM me and I'll help you further there if you like as I know quite a few possibilities.
D) Look for external reinforcement - network!

Goodluck with what ever you decide to do. You are welcome to PM me if you want. I am in the middle of a house move so it might be a few days (i.e. after wednesday before I reply) but I will dig out some public engagement stuff/links for you if you like. I promise it helped me loads so even though it seems like extra, unpaid work the rewards in terms of self-confidence were, for me, worth it!

The situation is very familiar, the further I was getting into my fully funded PhD, the more I had some kind of allergy against all things connected to it. In the end I couldn't tolerate it anymore at all. Currently I've moved away to so call 'write up' and 'finishing off active research work'. Being in a new country I found thousands of excuses not to get to it. I believe I have worked only during the first week. My partner has been trying to push me to do it, but even he gave up on it as it didn't change much. I think the motivation to finish it should come from within. Now I'm in frond of similar dilemma - I want to quit, but without some kind of paper justifying all these years spent on PhD I will be a bad job candidate. So it means I've got to go for MPhil... But I've got a Masters already (from a different uni). Also just a thought of going to my department to give an MPhil presentation kills me... You know how all these academics are. If I tell them I want an MPhil it's more of accepting my defeat in some kind of PhD degree competition. I may be pitied and looked down upon. OK, perhaps I can stand it for a day before I leave this environment forever, but ... Again do I need that MPhil really that much? Can't I simply quit and put some line of doing 'Research work' at uni during this time? Would it be correct as an explanation of PhD. It is the research and since it was paid (scholarship) maybe I could call it 'work'?

I've met my supervisor last time and have put the deadline (myself), if I don't do any work by September 1st I'd like to do an Mphil... Now it's September 1st I haven't done any work. So I've got to go for an MPhil... But I would rather quit... Why is it so difficult to decide to cross off this goal even though I've completely lost interest towards it? Why leaving people sometimes went much smoother than quitting a PhD degree?

Anyway, good luck for people who are in front of the same challenge. I hope the decisions come to you easier than they do to me.

======= Date Modified 04 Sep 2010 16:45:13 =======
I will keep this short. Quit.

Successful people know when to quit and when to stick at it. If you do neither of these things you are prolonging the agony. So far you have spent two years at this. It is not a waste as you have learned many things, mainly about what you want from life. If you struggle on for 2-3 years+ and nothing will change.

I am currently doing my final corrections to sent to the printer/binder for submission next week, 5 years and 11 months from starting. Am I relieved and jubilant? No. I had 2 big opportunities to quit. One at 1.5years in when I realised I did not want a career as a academic. One at 4 years in where I was hit by depression. I sincerely regret not having the courage to quit. Please do not be scared to do the right thing for yourself.

Hi Coop,

Like the rest of the PhD students on this thread, believe me, you're not alone. My supervision was rubbish and basically cost me my PhD after 5 years of work (not to mention money)! I was told by my supervisor that things were ok, but it wasn't until the external examiners had a look tat the real problems emerged. The university subsequently sacked my supervisor and my research group. As a result, ruined my chances of completion. For me, it'll be complete at MPhil and move on because I really do NOT trust academics.

Supervisors rarely could care less about how you're 'feeling' and I tell you for definite that depression is very common in research students for all the reasons you've mentioned. Supervisors care about what makes 'them' look good.

Either you play their 'egotistical' game or you'll have a long year or so to go.

Hi all,

Thank you all so much for your kind words of support and helpful advice. It seems there are a few people who feel the same as me.

I just thought I'd let you all know how I'm getting on. I've spoken to my supervisor and been completely honest with her about everything. She was actually very kind and fair and helped me to make a decision. I have decided to write up what I have and submit for an MPhil and then walk away from it. I think this is a really postive decision for me to make and I'm happy with it, it's just very scary to step out into the unknown!

So now I'm just finishing off work for my Masters and applying for jobs! Wish me luck! I hope all of you in similar situations find the courage to make the right decision for what is right for you.

Thank you again for all the support!!

Glad you've reached a decision, and it sounds as if you're happy with it. I walked away from a full-time PhD 14 years ago. It was the hardest decision I ever had to make, but as soon as I'd made it I knew it was the right one, and I felt a lot better. Sounds like that's happened with you.

Good luck for the future, including your job hunting.

I'm glad you've found your way forward, and you seem relieved. Also, on the job front, it's great that you've decided to write up what you've done to get something positive to put on your CV.

Good luck with your job search :-)

Hello

I have started with Phd and I found the supervisor quite not only unhelpful but also trying to put me down from the beginning well I really did not understand why. may be because I am a girlish one.... well I tried alot and after a year and four months struggling and working in the laboratory I changed supervisor and I have submitted my thesis as a master. But I found Phd or master as one of the horrible part  of my life. I am recovering from it to be a normal person someone who can live normally which is still far away from it. I ended up with panic attacks and after 9 months I cannot meet him as I feel a deep fear in myself.. and I cannot control myself that is the reason that I quit the joint meeting with my current supervisor most of the time...

The point was that as long as I have started to have data in my second year putting me down and joking behaviour were started and I have never understood why.... well, I guess it might be  because I am girl, Muslim and form middleestern part of the world...

I am still searching for job here nothing happened for the past 2 months... however, I have not been graduated yet and I am waiitng for exmainaiton of thesis result....so it was a bad experience, but I think if I would go on with phd and was down in 4th or 3rd year it was worst than what I am now...

I am happy with my decision and I really like to go on and find a job outside academic, I find academic with no knowledge based just a connection matters. It really does not matter how informed you are and what knowledge you have, it matters what is your connection...

My supervisor once told me that if you win noble prize you might not get an academic position...well, after two years I find that being in industry is much more attractive to me than research which is based on personal decison of one or two persons....

I am happy with my decision however it makes me sad sometimes of thinking about it...

It is quite obvious from my resume that it is unlikely that I intentionally did master as my previous degreee is doctorate... but still I believe that I can find a job... in inudstry...what i learnt from that when it passed it was not that much important than what I thought..........

so, if it makes you sick get out of it, if you enjoy it stay on and do not build your way to phd on
supervisor.... remember that the best lesson from phd is how to manage relationship and how to balance life work balance the way you be happy and you can do as efficient as you can it is not just science...

I think science is really the easiest part of phd among all those....

most of them they are just a name and a signature at the end...and when your work turned down to a positive part they suddenly come and get the credit that we tried hard to help you.....

wish you luck but do not give up fast...

PY

Hello

I have started with Phd and I found the supervisor quite not only unhelpful but also trying to put me down from the beginning well I really did not understand why. may be because I am a girlish one.... well I tried alot and after a year and four months struggling and working in the laboratory I changed supervisor and I have submitted my thesis as a master. But I found Phd or master as one of the horrible part  of my life. I am recovering from it to be a normal person someone who can live normally which is still far away from it. I ended up with panic attacks and after 9 months I cannot meet him as I feel a deep fear in myself.. and I cannot control myself that is the reason that I quit the joint meeting with my current supervisor most of the time...

The point was that as long as I have started to have data in my second year putting me down and joking behaviour were started and I have never understood why.... well, I guess it might be  because I am girl, Muslim and form middleestern part of the world...

I am still searching for job here nothing happened for the past 2 months... however, I have not been graduated yet and I am waiitng for exmainaiton of thesis result....so it was a bad experience, but I think if I would go on with phd and was down in 4th or 3rd year it was worst than what I am now...

I am happy with my decision and I really like to go on and find a job outside academic, I find academic with no knowledge based just a connection matters. It really does not matter how informed you are and what knowledge you have, it matters what is your connection...

My supervisor once told me that if you win noble prize you might not get an academic position...well, after two years I find that being in industry is much more attractive to me than research which is based on personal decison of one or two persons....

I am happy with my decision however it makes me sad sometimes of thinking about it...

It is quite obvious from my resume that it is unlikely that I intentionally did master as my previous degreee is doctorate... but still I believe that I can find a job... in inudstry...what i learnt from that when it passed it was not that much important than what I thought..........

so, if it makes you sick get out of it, if you enjoy it stay on and do not build your way to phd on
supervisor.... remember that the best lesson from phd is how to manage relationship and how to balance life work balance the way you be happy and you can do as efficient as you can it is not just science...

I think science is really the easiest part of phd among all those....

most of them they are just a name and a signature at the end...and when your work turned down to a positive part they suddenly come and get the credit that we tried hard to help you.....

wish you luck but do not give up fast...

PY

Hello

I have started with Phd and I found the supervisor quite not only unhelpful but also trying to put me down from the beginning well I really did not understand why. may be because I am a girlish one.... well I tried alot and after a year and four months struggling and working in the laboratory I changed supervisor and I have submitted my thesis as a master. But I found Phd or master as one of the horrible part  of my life. I am recovering from it to be a normal person someone who can live normally which is still far away from it. I ended up with panic attacks and after 9 months I cannot meet him as I feel a deep fear in myself.. and I cannot control myself that is the reason that I quit the joint meeting with my current supervisor most of the time...

The point was that as long as I have started to have data in my second year putting me down and joking behaviour were started and I have never understood why.... well, I guess it might be  because I am girl, Muslim and form middleestern part of the world...

I am still searching for job here nothing happened for the past 2 months... however, I have not been graduated yet and I am waiitng for exmainaiton of thesis result....so it was a bad experience, but I think if I would go on with phd and was down in 4th or 3rd year it was worst than what I am now...

I am happy with my decision and I really like to go on and find a job outside academic, I find academic with no knowledge based just a connection matters. It really does not matter how informed you are and what knowledge you have, it matters what is your connection...

My supervisor once told me that if you win noble prize you might not get an academic position...well, after two years I find that being in industry is much more attractive to me than research which is based on personal decison of one or two persons....

I am happy with my decision however it makes me sad sometimes of thinking about it...

It is quite obvious from my resume that it is unlikely that I intentionally did master as my previous degreee is doctorate... but still I believe that I can find a job... in inudstry...what i learnt from that when it passed it was not that much important than what I thought..........

so, if it makes you sick get out of it, if you enjoy it stay on and do not build your way to phd on
supervisor.... remember that the best lesson from phd is how to manage relationship and how to balance life work balance the way you be happy and you can do as efficient as you can it is not just science...

I think science is really the easiest part of phd among all those....

most of them they are just a name and a signature at the end...and when your work turned down to a positive part they suddenly come and get the credit that we tried hard to help you.....

wish you luck but do not give up fast...

PY

Your situation is exactly the same as mine... Its nice to know Im not alone :) However when my new supervisor started she became a bully and thats what forced me to quit. I suffered from clinical depression before starting my PhD and it impacted the first year and a half ish. After that I had had enough so I have decided to get out, take the MPhil and get myself back together again. I wish you all the luck in the world :)

======= Date Modified 23 Sep 2010 06:13:15 =======
Hey Coop, how's things going? Hope you are feeling better.

I'm in a similar situation too. 5 months into PhD, hate it so much I want to throw myself out from the window right now! I'm losing sleep, getting grumpy and whining all the time. I think I'm well on my way to clinical depression. ;-)

A short background on my journey so far: exciting new project at state level, received a national scholarship, famous supervisors, relocated to another country, left a wonderful, more importantly high income job behind. All sound like a dream come true (except the job part, I actually liked my job). Unfortunately the topic the supervisors had in mind wasn't what I'm interested. I thought, ok, a new area in the field, could be fun! I tried, in God's name I tried and tried and tried to like this "new area". But the world is a funny place, the new area and I just don't click. I tried to negotiate the topic but they quite clearly told me that there's not the slightest chance. So I'm in a situation which when I procrastinate, I feel guilty for not doing something I hate! What on earth is wrong with me?! I am quitting!

1 hour ago, I had a talk with one of the supervisors who is more on my side, she said she would try to talk to the other two again, and naturally she tried to talk me out of it. So I asked her, if a coupe gets married and one of them found that he/she does not love the other person anymore, when will he/she finally decide to stop trying and get a divorce? She gave a weak laugh and an empathetic look. I remember a scene from the first "Sex and the City" movie, Samantha was wondering whether she should break up with Smith, who is young, hot, famous, went through chemo with her and loves her to death. Not to mention that he is every gay man and straight woman's dream. Then Kerry said, Samantha, you just compared your relationship with Smith with chemo. At that moment Samantha knew the answer.

So what is my PhD to me? Well, it's a burden that inflicts tremendous pain on me 24/7, brings out the worst in me and makes me a less person than I was. Oh, I can see the upside in chemo, it might kill the cancer. But my G what's the upsides of this PhD to me?

The idea of doing research is still quite appealing to me, because the joy of completing my MA thesis is so deep I can drown in it. I worked 8-9 hours everyday, 6-7 days a week, I was working part-time at the same time, lived in a student accommodation (not agreeable!), ate microwave food and had no social life. But all those things didn't matter, I love my topic so much! One day I will do a PhD in something I really enjoy. For tonight, I'm hanging out with my friends, guilt free! 8-)

======= Date Modified 23 Sep 2010 21:25:36 =======
Hi!  I just posted a thread yesterday about my situation which is the opposite of yours.

I'm in month 37 of what I planned to be a four-year PhD in Education. I really want to finish the PhD.  Love the research and tinkering around with ideas and stuff, but have had a very unresponsive and unsupportive supervisor (who took a year's sabbatical and was incommunicado during that time) plus a committee member who doubted her abilities to understand what I was writing about. I was supposed to have finished my comp exams by August 31, 2010. 

Well, that day has come and gone and now I've been asked to withdraw because everyone on my committee resigned because I had asked for either a six-month extension to finish the comps or a leave of absence to get my act together. As we all know not having a supervisor is basically a death knell.  So I guess I am the opposite of you. I love the program and doing the research and feeling like I will make a contribution to society and academia, not to mention being able to teach education students when I am finished.  But them how can I do that without a PhD? So naturally I'm totally stressed out, crying all the time, eating bags of potato chips and gaining weight as we speak since no one at the department wants to help me figure something out.  It's withdraw now. Tough shit. Thanks for your money and wasting our time.

I hope you have found a resolution to your situation.  I've yet to find mine. Sometimes I wonder why academia makes it so difficult to try and work things out whether someone wants to drop out or stay and finish.

I recently wrote an article about this very same subject where I have used your opinions, it's in my blog and it would be nice to have your opinion. Thanks.

www.thetoxicologisttoday.blogspot.com

Alike so many other posters on this thread, and within these forums, my own personal experience has been identical on so many levels. It would truly appear from the amount of clinically depressed individuals posting on this profoundly melancholy website that this form of study should literally come with a health warning. This in light of the degradation and demotivation that seems to be the natural result of interfacing raw talent, drive and ambition with the ego-driven and ultra closed-shop world of modern academia.