To H:

>As for your feelings for the young lady, you thinking of her as a >little sister, well that means it would be incestous for you to >consider a more serious relationship with her. Therefore you >probably just wanted to be her friend.

I suppose you're right. Actually I recall a particular occasion we went together to a typical Oxbridge formal dinner in which she looked gorgeous and she sat so close to me that I almost freaked out and ran away. Americans always make me feel uncomfortable with their excessive "friendliness"--I experienced this already when I visited the Southern USA and everyone there wanted to hug me, call me nicknames, and invite me to their houses. That makes me puke.

Urges belong to animals. We're not animals, but people. Don't sell yourself short guys.

And, yeah, I can confirm that although I cried and didn't sleep for weeks thinking about her, I never ever had se*ual feelings for her, just a really deep feeling of familiarity and empathy, as if she were a little sister or cousin (I'm 8 years her senior) I wanted to be with all the time. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for.

To coastalchick:

>You could have saved yourself alot of hassle if you had done your >homework

I suppose you're right. She told me it was a mistake that I never asked about her bf. I wrongly assumed it was just a "puppy bf" when she showed me pics of them never alone, nor hugging, kissing or holding hands. That's why I fell in because NSBM was so evident and later confirmed by her. I never even suspected it was more serious than it appeared because they were sticking to the principles of Christian courtship--BTW, I have no idea what denomination she belongs to, I guess Baptist or something, but she told me her church had to convince her parents to allow her come to Oxbridge to do the PhD.

To katq:

You may have a point here. According to "hardcore" courtship theory (Joshua Harris et al), "eros" will build up naturally bit by bit every day during the 2-year process, so that the expectation is that on wedding day the couple will be so in love with each other, that the marital embrace will happen just smoothly and beautifully in a trusted and family atmosphere, and because they're both virgin, they will not be able to compare their partner to someone else. This sounds kinda idealistic, though, but as you say, everyone has their own beliefs, as in my personal case I know I just could not even kiss a woman I'm not married to--let alone the whole thing! Now, given the kind of replies in this thread, now I see that the long-distance courtship is just impossible during a PhD, unless it started before it, and if it survives it, the relationship will be stronger than ever. Any data on this?

Back to the original topic of this thread, courtship can be thought of as a rational process for the deepening of "philia" and the development of "agape"--"storge" can only develop after marriage and "eros" can be claimed to be ever present, although in a latent way.

To Cryogenics:

Yes indeed. Love should be the basis of any marriage. Unfortunately, the world "love" is nowadays used in too narrow a sense, and most often to refer to "eros" (physical attraction and sexual desire) much in detriment of "agape" (general affection, rational concern for the well-being of the other), "philia" (friendship), and "storge" (natural affection for family members). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love. Having said that, it can be argued that in any marriage a healthy combination of these types of love should be aimed at, and not only the usually short-lived "eros" that has become the paradigm since Romeo and Juliet.

To AnnieG:

Unfortunately I have no idea on courtship for LGBT people, sorry. I suppose the deep friendship first principle still applies, though.

To Matthew82:

Ok, if the guy cannot perform -erectile dysfunction or whathever-, he should tell her beforehand of his problem and seek help. If there is a really deep, intimate friendship before getting married, they should be able to discuss these issues openly--same if she's frigid or whatever. I mean, there are ways to know these things without the need to sleep around and stuff. BTW what is ONS?

I still don't get it why such insistence on pre-marital s*x, or "trying before buying" as you call it. I mean, I would guess s*x is just a minimal part of married life (less than 10%), and as long as they're both healthy, children will be born. And then, after a certain age, s*x is non-existent in the couple and all what remains is the friendship and the commitment.

To clairet707:

>I had enough of finding gibbering idiots in bars...

I would say a bar is the worst ever place for finding a spouse. Just think about it for a moment. Good girls/boys don't go to bars alone at night, do they? I mean, I know "that's what most people do", but it doesn't mean it is the right way. That's why I never go to bars.

One of the things that two married PhDs could do is start their own specialised consulting firm, providing their research topics are not that far apart. That would add an even stronger bond to the underlying friendship and commitment. Just have a look at this couple of consultants who met at Oxon and have been married for 35 years now http://www.netage.com/company/aboutus/chronology.htm. That would rule! I would love to do that and be able to raise my own children -one of my dreams- without having to work 9 to 9 for another company.

To laura:

>Why not try lowering your expectations a little bit?

No way! Since I met that Oxbridge girl who's willing to do all these things for someone else in the US, I have even less reasons to lower my expectations. "Don't give up" she told me, so I'm confident it's just a matter of faith and patience. And, as she also told me, emotions -such as falling in and out of love- are not as important as commitment -which is completely rational- when it comes to a long-term marriage. Makes a lot of sense to me, no matter how old fashioned it might be. Just read Joshua Harris.

I mean, I've never lowered my expectations when it comes to jobs, universities (LSE, Oxbridge) and I've always been right, so I don't see any reason why I should settle down for less now.

To BioReactor:

>Placing such strict criteria means you will probably never find >anyone. Or the ones you do find will be taken.

Granted. I thought I would never find anyone who fulfilled all the criteria, but I did. Unfortunately, as you said, she was taken. I'd rather remain alone for the rest of my life than settle down for less.

>This poor girl needs to be left alone if she already has a >boyfriend. There are more fish in the sea!!! I don't like people who >try and steal someone away someone tried to do that with my >girlfriend.

I've left her alone. That's the best I could do. And I'd rather die than try to steal her. Although I'm a non believer, I'll pray for her happiness and for someone else as good as her to show up "in the sea". The key is to have faith and keep the eyes open I suppose, but never to lower expectations.