I'm not really sure how it will be perceived by the organizers of the conference, but i would do what works for you and your research ect. you have the excuse that your supervisor has requested you change to poster presentation, and just be polite and apologetic. also better sooner, than later, I'm sure they can find someone at this stage to fill your spot.

dropping out of a PhD is just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. (maybe if its what you want there is still a way to salvage the PhD) But for now just realize that a gaining a PhD is not the only way to lead a fulfilling and meaningful life. committing suicide because you have to quit a job (which is basically what a phd is) is just not rational.
it is hard to see a dream go up in smoke... is it hard especially if you feel people pushed you to this point and the odds have been stalked against you. But it happens, in all walks of life. learn what you can and move on. find your joy in life; yes; it is possible. be brave. be courageous.

you sound depressed, I have been depressed; for me; I fully believed all the negative things I thought. In hindsight I realize that I interpreted things in way that made everything seem hopeless and negative. My point is, that if you get some good professional help, and some space from the situation, you will probably feel completely different about the whole situation in a year. You owe it to yourself to give yourself, at least a chance to find that out.

I second what others have said about calling Samaritans (116 123) or if not available in your country, if you google there are helplines for people in need for most countries . and student lines in uk, usa and ireland.

Hi Monikaa, suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem. no matter how dire a life situation can seem, is being six feet under, an improvement? life situations change, all the time, sometimes slowly, sometimes with effort, but they do change. regardless of whether you decide to quit your PhD or not, you will be happy with life again. why deny yourself that opportunity?

I know several close relatives and friends who have killed themselves. each of them were in very difficult life situations, and I could understand on some level why they felt this was their option. but it has been between 10 and 30 years since their deaths, and they are still missed. they would have got through things, it may not have been easy, it may have taken some struggle, even hardship, but they would have eventually moved on with their lives. and had good lives, with friends and relatives who cared about them, its just so pointless.

And as to the people you leave behind; you have no idea of trauma your suicide will put them through. they will never fully get over it.(even people you think don't care) I still, 20 years later miss my Aunt and my friend. its still a massive source of pain to me, that I didn't do more to help. I actually went through a massive depression, fueled partly by Aunts suicide. And if relatives or friends are contributing to your pain right now, i hear you, it happens too. all the time. But you will meet other people whom you can have better relationships with.
.
contd in next post

No they won't know if you work on your thesis and why would they mind if it progressed the work.

It sounds like, from your post, you have the meat (ie results), you just need a clear theoretical framework, i.e a rationale for the work that fits with your findings and your interpretation of the findings.

My advice is to take 1-2 months completely off. go on holiday, visit friends, try a new hobby you have been putting off. a complete switch off. then come back to it, maybe just 4 hours in morning, 5 days a week to for the first month. and do some reading that would help find a clear theoretical framework, within which to situate your work.

I feel if you don't take a break, a good clean break, you will just go around in circles of stress, confusion and burnout. I pretty much have done that myself. breaks are vital sometimes.

I think Rewt's advice is very good, regarding, writing out in clear bullet points, (just for your own clarity of mind) the key points of each chapter. I think aim of chapter, methods of chapter, rationale for method of chapter, findings, interpretation of findings, is helpful, but you might need a different guide for more theoretical chapters. One thing someone said to me and it sounds so simple, is that the examiner needs to be 'hit' with a clear, 'this is what I did_ this is why i did it_ this what I found_ ' this needs to be clear, very clear.

You need to show them, you know what you did, you had clear reasons for doing it that particular way and you have a clear and consistent reason for interpreting your findings in the manner you did.

they may read your thesis, some late night, while having a head cold, and distracted because their kid is sick and due to other work/life demands, and if it seems unclear, they may just decide you don't know what your doing.

I don't think you are accurate about considering a pgdip as failed masters. there are some terminal pgdips. Sometimes people need theory and practical skills and don't need or want research skills.

As for you personal situation, I think you made all the right choices so far. especially concerning the second masters/pgdip.... that could have ended up being a disaster if there wasn't the supports you needed to do your work.

all considered, you had good reasons for leaving both courses with pgdip. But you still will have to be careful about how you market yourself to schools when applying for Mphil... I would be afraid that your decision to leave your first masters because you didn't think you would enjoy research might raise some red flags (though I still think you made the right decision for you at the time).

I wonder is it better to just leave that one off your c.v when applying for the Mphil. I don't know if they would ever find out. Might just make it easier. I would be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this.

I would imagine you could in person explain yourself; but on paper it might not look great.

if a teacher at school was exposing you young child to chemicals that could adversely affect his/her development and health, would you be coming on a message board and asking if you should do anything about it?
You need to prioritize your child over PhD.
but it won't even come to that; It is definitely illegal to make someone work in conditions that would adversely affect their health.

but in the case you had no rights (which you do) and you could be forced to work in an environment that would adversely affect your child's health... would you still do it????

Like I honestly don't what your asking here? should I continue to work in environment that has the potential to harm my unborn child? not a difficult question to answer.
are there legal protections against making people work in unsafe environments? yes, obviously.

as for your adviser not understanding... he probably doesn't care enough to actually consider the consequences... you should, however. It is your responsibility.

as for your specific dilemma,
I think the rational answer is, submit you pg dip requirements (if not already done) and then you have over 6 months to learn a new skill and write 10,000 words. Seems like you could do this without to much pressure, given the time you have available. And given your 1.1. physics degree seems like you should be well able.

BUT it is all very well for something to be rational choice, but you could still feel very strongly, ''i have had enough, I just cant go on with it, I just don't want to go with it'' And you know, that's valid too. You said you are not going to work in the area of your masters, so in grand scheme of your life, it may not make much of a difference.

I do think, however, if you are thinking of quitting, I would firstly submit all requirements for the pgdip, and request a leave of absence for 2 - 3 months.
In that time; take a break, spend time with family and friends, go on a holiday, read some good books on depression, maybe see if you find a counselor who can help you with depression. And then after the 2-3 months are up, you will be a better position to make the decision. you can decide at that point whether to complete.

It does seem like, learning a new skill, even independently and writing a 10,000 thesis could be done in 5 months while still taking weekends off to spend with family and friends and taking care of yourself. You could just look at it, as a sucky job, but thankfully your not stuck in it forever, it's just a means to an end, and a temporary one at that.

so even if you think cant get leave of absence, you could submit the pgdip requirements and take a month off for a breather.

Hope this helps. come back and post how you are getting on. don't let the cyber stalkers put you off!!

Hi again m83,

First of all, really sorry to hear you are feeling so depressed. If it helps, and this helps me, this is common in postgraduate degree's especially when you realize the course isn't for you and you have to go on anyway.

anyway just so you know, right now, out in the world there are at least a 100, if not 100's of students feeling similarly about their course choice and life prospects. In general, feeling disappointment , regret, depression or like a failure are as much a part of life (even a good life) as feeling happy, successful and content. someone famous said that (in better words) but its a thought that give me comfort, when I am my lowest.

So you really do need to talk to someone or seek some help if you feeling suicidal. I personally have found the headspace meditation app, really helped me get out of depression hole. there is a free version and a version with more features which costs 14 euro a month. I feel the pay version is brilliant and if you don't find it useful you can cancel at any time. Its a mediation app, so with mediation, it can take a while to feel good effects or even any effects. it is like an adult learning how to swim; the first time or few times, might be very uncomfortable, you might swallow a lot of water, feel sick or think your going to drown and never get the hang of it. But once you get past that phase it becomes really enjoyable and helpful.


I think from you post it seemed like isolation from people you like and who care about you is a contributory factor, so it would be a really good idea if you could try and spend time with some of those people.

contd in next post

Hi m83,

I felt compelled to respond to your query after reading eng77 reply. First of all, eng77; people are entitled to re-post a question if they want, you don't have to respond if you don't like it.

Secondly people are entitled to create a new account for whatever reason they want; it could be due to anonymity concerns, or just wanting fresh perspective, or any private reason they like. I feel cyber-stalking someone and drawing attention to their disparate activities on the forum is a gross invasion of their privacy and it is bullying and cyber-stalking.

Overall I personally felt upset reading your reply because it came across very cold and as a shockingly insensitive reply to someone who had expressed feelings of depression and thoughts of suicide. Maybe you were just in a hurry and tone can come across different than intended. But the impression I got from your reply seemed like you were being dismissive and condescending to someone who asked for advice and support to a very common and reasonable problem .

Anyway, m83, I guess my advice to you, is please don't take eng77 comments to heart. I will post in next reply, my thoughts on your predicament.

getting onto a Masters is not really too difficult. they want to fill the course and get the fees. Typically they state minimum entry requirement as 2.1 (this is a b average) and some accept a 2.2 ( I think this is a C average). I think with your GPA you would have the minimum. its just a matter of writing a clear and articulate personal statement, selling your passion and demonstrating your ability to complete the course, which you papers would seem to offer good proof of.

really they would accept your dog if they thought he would mange to complete the course. to them its matter of 'we want the fees, but we don't want to accept a bunch of people who fail the course'. so you just need to prove to them you can pass the course.

there are a rare few masters that are extremely popular in each field, and getting onto those is always a long shot without 1.1( A average), but it doesn't hurt to apply to these, if they are looking to make up numbers in any year, or if you really sell yourself, you still have a chance.

Hi starryeyed, I'm not sure if I can offer much in the way of career advice, but I wanted to say I think it is really admirable that you declined first authorship on PhD student project. From what I have seen in academia it is not the common choice. I think no matter what the outcome, you did the right thing, behaved like a very decent human being, and that is not always an easy thing to do, within the competitive nature of academia.

It sounds like you know your stuff and equipped to get on well in your field (to me!)

I think you need decide how important having children is for you. If it is important, then for the short term, I would prioritise that. In my field taking a career break to have a healthy pregnancy due to medical issues would not be held against someone.

why not find something, even adjunct teaching or another local (ish) postdoc that you can do while trying for another baby (if babies are something you want).

Only you can really decide if you are willing to forgo having children for the chance at this one specific career. I would think long and hard about it.

Maybe you need to a break for a day or two and re-evaluate your priorities. Do you really want this? are you prepared to sweat blood and tears? I think take a day off,maybe have a cry and then get over it. If you have got this far, you can do these last 3 months.

Try not to think to too much of the future, i.e after the PhD. You may find yourself disadvantaged, but this is not due to a personal failing on your part, its just the competitive nature of academia.

Just focus on the next step ahead of you; Finishing the PhD and stay positive. You really don't know at this stage what opportunities in, or beyond ,academia could open up. But really all that is 'future you' problem.

Focus on what you have achieved and how well your doing despite everything. Don't tell yourself the story of ..'i failed, the future is bleak and it's all my own fault' ect. this is demotivating and stressful. Just frame it in a positive light. its sort of like whether you see the glass half empty of half full.

If you are really having trouble with this, seeing yourself and your achievements in a positive light, I would suggest maybe finding a counsellor or talking it out with some caring friends who support you.

I think you have a good chance, though I am not in your field, so can't be sure.

You would have a good chance in my field. It's down to finding a good fit between your research experience/skills/interests and a potential programme/supervisor.

And how well you come across at interviews.

I would, if you can, get a position as research assistant, while you are applying. you can never have too much research experience. It will also equip you with invaluable skills and demonstrate you interest/motivation

Good Luck

Can anyone tell me how to report a private message or contact the moderators.

I received a pm from some random troll offering to format my thesis and do referencing.
As if I'm going to hand that over to some anonymous person with no accountability.

I resent being spammed by these circumspect people. . Grr

I agree with helebon, big egos everywhere in academia. I wouldn't judge yourself too harshly got choosing big name uni...it's what most people would advise doing.

You sound a bit disheartened. .and understandably so.

But having said that you need to rethink the story about all this in your head and fight to pass..since your going to be doing the work anyway, you might as well.

It sounds from your post your being really harsh with
Yourself and blaming yourself u necessarily and feeling like a failure.

There are other ways of looking at it. I would see it as someone who is very smart and capable who had bad luck with supervision (unfortunately all too common) and who despite setbacks is still in with chance to get the award