======= Date Modified 30 Jul 2011 22:03:59 =======
Hi forum,

Well after very little success with the job market, I've decided to throw myself into my thesis. Ideally, I would like to finish my PhD before Christmas- even if it means locking myself away for a few months.

Although I received a major corrections / resubmission outcome without a secondary viva(which is what I wanted, I assumed an outright fail or an MPhil), I'm finding it very difficult to focus on my thesis!

Living in post viva land is very strange indeed! I've spent the last few years really worrying about failing my viva. Now I'm on the other side of the viva fence, I feel a little empty as I no longer have the all to familiar viva worries! It's almost as if worrying and preparing for my viva became a part of me! I'm also struggling to process the positive feedback from my examiners. I really wasn't expecting it! Also wondering if I'm residing in some strange dream world, ie imagining positive feedback when in reality they grilled me alive (Oh dear, I may need some help!).

I also feel like a mediocre PhD student in comparison with other PhD students in my department who have their vivas coming up. I haven't published any of my thesis findings, whereas their supervisors are constantly pushing them to publish articles and present at conferences. I haven't heard anything from my university since my viva in June- so I'm feeling very isolated and alone! :( It feels like my university has washed their hands of me :( I know I'm not a 'mediocre PhD student because I managed to get through my viva with a relatively good outcome (for me) and received such positive feedback from my examiners. All in all, I think I've got some real problems with accepting positive feedback!

Anyway, back to the point, does anyone have any tips on pulling through this final hurdle? Most of my corrections involve cutting everything down and adding some recommendations.

Thanks for reading
:-)

======= Date Modified 22 Jul 2011 19:20:23 =======
Thanks everyone......

Received further set backs today. I was not short-listed for any of the Research Assistant posts I recently applied for or any of the audit mental health type jobs. I haven't heard anything from my non graduate applications either. I found out from another website that undergraduates were short listed for the jobs I applied for- just to rub salt in my wounds!

This is sooooooo depressing!!!

Continuing with Health Psych depends on funding and securing placements- which are both very uncertain at the moment! I'm very interested in Health Psychology, so this is a very attractive option at the moment. A ProfDoc in Health Psych will allow me to apply for nhs and private grade 7/8 health psychology posts and improve my chances in applying for health psychology research posts.

Here are my options.........

1) Claim JSA,
2) finish thesis corrections asap
3) keep applying for jobs,
4) cut out all of my postgrad qualifications, awards and publications for non graduate jobs,
5) consider applying for research associate positions,
6) play the lottery!?!,
7) Suck it up, banish my prejudices about visiting the job centre and visit the job centre frequently.
8) Revise my personal statement
9) try and remain positive
10) Contact supervisors at my last post for any job opportunities.
11) look at jobs completely unrelated to psychology and social care
12) maybe ask for feedback as to why I wasn't short-listed??!
13) consider retraining in other fields if my health psychology option falls through
14) Demand my ex returns the 1.5k I lent him years ago.
15) Prepare for my private tuition job interview in August
16) Sell my psychology library (very reluctant to sell my books!) and my extensive dvd collection (oh nooooooo!)
17) Chase up my latest volunteer expenses- 86 pounds worth of expenses to claim
18) Check whether I've overpaid for tax at my last UCL researcher job.
19) Seek advice on my CV and my personal statement
20) Really sell myself in job applications and really tailor my application to person specifications and job descriptions

I wish I knew the job market was like this post viva. If I had known it would be this difficult to find work post viva, I would have saved my PhD scholarship money by living at home and saved every penny from my last research assistant/associate position at UCL last year!

:-(

Thanks Jane- your reply is really helping me put this all job app rejection stuff into perspective!

======= Date Modified 21 Jul 2011 09:08:15 =======
Five minutes before my viva and from supervisory meetings post submission, my supervisors kept telling me to prepare for an MPhil result. I was also told a day before submitting my upgrade report that I should consider submitting for an MPhil.

Perhaps it was just a case of keeping me informed of all possible outcomes, or an attempt to push me into a focused more defensive fighting mode, but their extreme negativity played havoc with my confidence, my weight (up to a size 16 now), my mental health (ie depression, extreme anxiety and panic attacks etc) and motivation for continuing!

I was devastated on both accounts- but I managed to pass my upgrade with flying colours and leave with a positive outcome from my viva! (ie very positive comments from my examiners and no secondary viva). It was incredibly satisfying to report positive outcomes and shock my supervisors into retracting their negative views!!!

However, in hindsight their attitude has made me a more resilient and determined sort of person and pushed me to look and critique the finer details, so probably a good thing! but not for someone with a weaker disposition I guess!
:p

======= Date Modified 21 Jul 2011 08:07:21 =======

Hi Dazednconfused!

I can really relate to this post. I'm also very despondent, confused and frustrated. I'm just not making the shortlist for any graduate jobs and it's incredibly frustrating and disheartening.

From the feedback I'm receiving, shortlisters rejected my application because their looking for 'junior graduates' at the start of their research careers, or they feel that a 'junior research assistant post' will add nothing to my post doc career or worries about moving on to more senior posts as soon as I complete my thesis corrections and receive my PhD, hence rejecting me outright.  I read somewhere that recruiters may feel threatened by employing someone with more experience and qualifications, which on some level I can sort of understand. Recruiters may make adverse initial snap judgements on applicants with postgrad qualifications, assume that someone with X qualifications and experiences would probably not 'gel' with other workers, or maybe assume that someone with a PhD would never be happy working in a non graduate job which brings round the 'risk of moving on/ leaving early' category. Who knows! I can see what their getting at though. In the current climate, recruiters probably want long term commitment from applicants (especially after forking out for expensive training packages!) and perhaps the money issue comes into play- ie paying less for less qualified and experienced applicants.

I even approached my old admin agency that I worked for during my undergrad summer vacations and they also rejected me because they feel my CV is too 'specialised'- whatever that means! It's soul destroying having to look and apply for jobs with applicants without any university qualifications at all, which makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time! In person, I'm not arrogant or boastful about my qualifications (I tend to keep it quiet!) but perhaps I'm sending out scary vibes from my CV and personal statement (and maybe from my online posts!).

I have however received positive responses from private tuition posts which I will look into. I'm envious of anyone with job interviews! In the meantime, I'm concentrating on my psychology related volunteering work, finishing my thesis corrections and very reluctantly sending out abridged CVs. Probably a good idea to reduce and restructure my personal statement as well.

Best of luck fellow job hunters and pre viva PhD candidates (sprout) 8-)

======= Date Modified 21 Jul 2011 07:13:17 =======
Hi Keenbean,

Best of luck with your submission!

The level of competition for jobs is truly frightening!

Depending on funding and finishing this PhD, I may well fit into the two Dr box :$ in two years time! (PhD and Professional Doctorate in Health Psychology). For me, I want to retrain, move away from research and complete my stage 2 training from my first MSc and a Professional Doctorate in Health Psych is just one way of working as a Chartered Health Psychologist. The Professional Doctorates are very different from PhDs and involve building up a work portfolio via work placements to demonstrate competencies in certain areas as well as completing a small thesis (in relation to a PhD) and other assignments ( literature review etc etc). Unlike Clinical Psychology, Health Psychology is a very new and evolving area and I would love to get involved as it fits in with my previous health psychology job.

I have met quite a few senior level professionals with two doctorates (a PhD and a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology) or (a PhD and a Professional Doctorate in Health Psychology) and even people with two professional doctorates (Doctorate in Clinical Psychology and a Doctorate in Health Psychology)  and they all tend to lead or manage large psychology departments!



This looks really positive Keenbean- Congratulations! Although I received an interview for a private tuition post, I'm not even reaching the shortlist for interviews for research posts or non graduate jobs which is very distressing! I've deliberately combined my studying with work placements/jobs so I'm struggling at the moment. Yesterday I applied for non graduate jobs (Support Worker, Care worker) by omitting all of my postgraduate qualifications. I really resented cutting them out, but lets see if I'll have more luck with it.



At my last post, my supervisor had three doctoral level qualifications. She had a PhD and was a Chartered Health Psychologist and a Chartered Clinical Psychologist. Needless to say, but she was running the department! Scary stuff!

:$

======= Date Modified 19 Jul 2011 07:43:15 =======
Thanks everyone. Looks like signing on is my only option at the moment! Tutoring undergrads or maybe A-level students sounds like a good idea :)

Without sounding arrogant and overly confident, I can't believe I'm struggling to find a job! This is soul destroying! :(

At the end of my third year of a PhD and towards the end of my last job I had loads of interviews. Now after a break in submitting my PhD thesis, preparing for my viva, looking after my dad after multiple strokes and pulling through my viva with a positive outcome I'm not getting any interviews at all! I've got good references from my last post, so I don't think that's the problem.

It feels like I'm going backwards! I know this is irrational, but everyone else with less experience and less qualifications seems to be getting interviews and I'm left out in the cold!

I think this PhD is more of a hindrance than anything. But, then again, I'm mostly applying for research assistant jobs or non graduate jobs that don't require a PhD and judging from the feedback I'm receiving from various places for graduate posts, their rejecting me because their looking for a 'junior graduate' (ie someone who has just graduated from an undergrad degree) and long term commitment- not someone who will probably achieve a PhD and move on to more senior researcher jobs.

I think I need to work on personal statement, explicitly explain why there's a big paid employment gap on my CV and keep trying! I really don't want to remove my qualifications from my CV (BSc, MSc, MSc, PGCert, PhD) but I may have to if this continues for much longer!

======= Date Modified 17 Jul 2011 15:39:45 =======
Hello friendly PhD folk!

In parallel to my thesis corrections post viva voce, I'm currently looking for a job and it's soul destroying!!

Since my PhD viva, over the last month or so, I've applied to a variety of different jobs (Research Assistant, Research Officer, Research Associate, Senior Research Assistant, Care Worker, Care Assistant, Support Worker etc etc) but I'm still not having any luck at all! :( I think almost everyone is labelling me as overly qualified judging from recent feedback. 

I've been seriously looking for just over a month now without any interviews :( My last employed job ended in Spring 2010, so there's a massive gap on my CV and it's starting to really worry me!  :$

I have used up all of my savings now and very close to my overdraft limit and it's starting to get quite desperate! :( I'm currently living with my family and their allowing me to stay at home and are sympathetic given that I'm not working. I'm not claiming job seekers allowance or benefits- I can't face signing on for benefits!

I've started some voluntary work to gain some experience and keep myself busy. I've also won a place on a Professional Doctorate in Health Psychology from September as I intend to retrain and integrate myself back into practitioner routes in psychology (rather than research), although starting doctorate number 2 depends on securing a smallish bank loan-so by no means certain. I've already secured my placements for the health psych doctorate, but I need a part time job to support myself!

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for reading :)

My uni outlines 3 months as a guidance for time between submission and viva.

In reality, I was made to wait 9 months as my first examiner pulled out at the last minute and my university had to find a new examiner. Hand on heart, the most stressful experience ever.

Waiting time depends on examiners availability, obtaining examiners in the first place, any bank holidays/national holidays (ie Christmas, New Year, Summer Vacation) and to some extent if there are any problems with a thesis (in my case overly long thesis).

I'm currently working on my thesis corrections for PhD award.

======= Date Modified 26 Jun 2011 09:23:31 =======

Hey KB, as you know, this happened to me, but for different reasons- ie refusing to mark it because of my thesis length, yet he had my thesis for 6 months before deciding to reject it! grrrrrrrrrrrrr(eeeek hope I haven't encouraged any paranoia here!).

I think it's very rare for examiners to pull out at the last minute or within 2 weeks before a viva.

In my case, the wait had nothng to do with my viva outcome. Much to my astonishment and relief, my examiners were extremely positive about my thesis findings and content. Almost all my corrections relate to reducing my thesis by a third. Glad I'm on this side of the fence though- ie post viva. Although I feel strangely empty or incomplete knowing that I no longer have to think about my viva or prepare for a secondary viva. Very strange!

Best of luck with your submission and viva prep. Happy to share viva prep questions (around 60 quesions!)-if it help anyone!

======= Date Modified 26 Jun 2011 09:13:17 =======
My department specified around 3 months between submission and viva, but in reality, this depends on examiners availability and timing (ie Christmas, summer vacation, university examination timing etc etc).

In the end I was made to wait NINE MONTHS between submission and viva, which was the most stressful time I think I've ever experienced and played havoc with my mental health and weight! The wait was due to the Christmas break, my overly long thesis, busy examiners and a viva cancellation days before my original viva date and time spent searching for another examiner.

======= Date Modified 26 Jun 2011 08:53:04 =======
Hey Vilee,

Just wanted to say I can totally emphasize with your situation. I'm a post viva PhD student currently working through my thesis corrections- hoping to finish my thesis revisions in a few months time.....perhaps slightly unrealistic, but the sooner the better!

I'm also in the same boat- ie hit with the 'over qualified' stick or receiving comments such as 'given your PhD, this post will add little to your research career and I recommend you look for post doc positions', or 'this position is for a junior psychology graduate only', or 'given your expertise, qualifications and experience, I recommend you apply for our senior research posts advertised shortly'........Hard to take, especially as I really need a job!! I was rejected from my employment agency that I used to work for because my qualifications and work experiences are 'too specialised'- whatever that means!

I'm actually moving away from research into something more applied- not a career change as such as I'm still sticking within the same sort of area, . I want to start a professional doctorate in Health Psychology soon, so I'm looking at relevant part time research positions (which I'm struggling to find!) and also four different voluntary positions to build up some one to one experience working with different client groups (external to research projects). I'll probably still apply for clinical psychology training at some point, but given the course seems to have the most insanely competitive admissions component, I don't fancy my chances! Changes within the NHS and reductions in research budgets will probably make my decision for me though :(

I'm also considering completely omitting my four postgraduate courses/degrees for non graduate jobs (support worker, carers etc), but it feels really painful to start deleting all my postgrad qualifications from my CV!

I'll be devastated if I eventually end up working in something completely unrelated or return to admin temping prior to graduating from my undergraduate degree. I wonder if I'll end up as a check out girl in Tescos like my parents predicted when I was just starting secondary school :-(

But, I don't regret my PhD at all. OK, I'm a dress size larger with a few more grey hairs, but I'm far more confident (despite how I may appear online) and learnt loads about myself and developed expertise in my thesis subject. oooooo Keenbean- we share some similar research interests ;-)

Best of luck Vilee

======= Date Modified 20 Jun 2011 08:57:18 =======
Following a positive viva voce outcome just over a week ago (still in disbelief!!), I'm intending to finish this PhD around September time. I'm thinking of sending my supervisors Selfridges hampers around Christmas time. Probably a little generous considering what I've been through over the last four/five years, but I would like to get them something assuming I'm awarded with a PhD after I've completed and worked through my examiners corrections. Despite everything, they've given me a fantastic opportunity and I'll always be grateful to them for letting me work on such interesting projects ;-)

======= Date Modified 13 Jun 2011 01:17:03 =======
Hi Bilbo- helpful as ever :)

Yes I scribbled some notes during the viva and after the viva I quickly sent a list of the main issues that were discussed to my supervisors. Most of the issues were about replacing terminologies, adding a few small sections to my methods and discussion chapters, renaming my chapter titles and cutting my thesis by about a third. They said I've added far too much detail in parts but they've recommended I either move some of the detail as an appendix in the case of context and historical tables or remove some extra detail and write up as a journal paper or book chapter. My corrections are mainly about 'sharpening' my writing style and keeping things concise, but nothing substantial such as more data collection, analyses or adding more tables. 

My examiners said they will be sending out a very detailed report and list of all the corrections they want me to work through. I also have my very detailed list of pre-viva corrections- ie typos, spelling mistakes etc (with page numbers and proposed corrected form presented in tables) and updates on my literature review chapters which I'm hoping will help with my resubmission.

I really feel fired up for this thesis!! Both my examiners were extremely positive about my work and follow up publications from my thesis. For the first time ever, I'm feeling very confident about my PhD and ready to really nail it this time round. All I really needed was a specialist in my field to tell me that I'm on the right track and my work has some value to it. I understand that a fail may still be a possibility post resubmission, but they were very clear that an MPhil or an outright fail was just not an option in my case given the complexities and detail contained within my thesis result chapters, so I guess this is something to be proud of ;-) I'm not taking any chances though. I intend to follow their corrections very very closely.

All in all, my viva has given me a new sense of confidence and self belief as I haven't failed with an MPhil or an outright fail, even with my current thesis draft containing loads of errors and too many words. I've also demonstrated that I can succeed and get through a PhD viva, ok maybe not with a pass PhD, but a successful nevertheless in avoiding a second viva, an MPhil or outright fail.

======= Date Modified 12 Jun 2011 23:52:50 =======
Hi Beejay :) Well I asked them if I had to sit through a second viva and they said no. They just want me to reduce the thesis and add a few minor things. No additional data collection or analyses.