Concerned about starting job without PhD
Hi guys,
I need a bit of advice for my present situation.
Two years of electronics PhD position hunting, and still no luck! Not even close. No acceptances, interviews, nothing. I've written two proposals, both of which have been reviewed really nicely by profs. Some even agreed to supervise, but same old story - no funding.
Due to my own finances, I decided to hunt for jobs too, and now I've landed one at a really good British multinational company. It doesn't pay much, but its a permanent post (which, from what I've heard, is quite a rarity for a first job?). Its in acoustics and vibration, which is quite different from my M.Sc field of electromagnetic design. But I am actually excited about that, because I love to learn, so I think it will be a good chance for me to do that in a completely new field. Another good thing is that its associated with research and design, so I may have some publication opportunities.
The thing is, I really DO still want to do PhD because I've always wanted to work in academia. But, I'm concerned about a few things:
1) Would working away from academia hinder my chances of joining a PhD program in engineering later on? Do profs usually prefer fresh grads who still remember their courses?
2) Since its in another field, would I likely end up being stuck in it? I was thinking of doing part-time PhD if the company lets me, but would it then HAVE to be in the field I'm working in? Would profs even consider me for another field, or would they say I'm unqualified?
3) I know that with a job, I may be able to fund myself, but if the salary isn't enough, are there fee reductions, etc. even for people who are employed? Or do unis assume that since you are working, you can pay everything?
Would love to hear some advice/experience that anyone may have about these concerns. A bit worried about them!
Obvious (silly) question, but I assume you've been looking at PhDs with funding already in place?
Ian
Yes, Ian. I started off about two years ago applying to the PhD positions that are usually advertised on sites like academicjobs, euraxess, etc. Most of these advertisements usually said that the funding is already in place.
After that, I thought of writing a proposal. I wrote one pretty detailed one, and another one less so. I managed to get two professors to agree for supervision too! But, in both cases it didn't work out due to funding rules (I'm a non-EU national) that the supervisors had already applied for.
Now, after x number of years of doing the PhD sometimes I think of how nice it would have been if I had found a job instead of starting mine. I went through hell - literally. And I needed the money. How about you start working, you put your foot on the work ladder for a year or two and then reconsider? Jobs don't grow on trees unfortunately. It's never too late to start a PhD. I recently met a PhD student who is 60 years old.
Agreed with Marasp. You can always do a PhD part-time as well, and depending on where you work, it might get funded/you can do an industry placement PhD (not sure what they're actually called?)
Can I ask why you want to work in Academia? Have you worked in Academia before? A number of PhDs start with the intention of working in Academia, but don't actually stay (myself included) when they realise what it's actually like, and that there are other pathways for them.
Academia is not a good environment right now in relation to job prospects. You need to have the utmost flexibility in where you might end up (anywhere in the world) Post-Docs are very difficult to obtain, let alone tenure, and Academia is a resource user, not really a resource generator, meaning that you need to be able to attract funding for research, produce publications that are in highly revered journals, get your name out there in terms of conference/symposium/seminar presentations and other forms of writing, and handle teaching (some manage to just to research work if they can consistently attract the funding but many need to take on teaching duties as well, which can be draining).
Having a job in industry is really good and something that a number of PhDs (myself included, working on it) wish they had.
Definitely do a PhD if that's what you want, but think long and hard about what it means to work in Academia, and whether it's something that will fit you.
Looking back, I wish (like marasp) I had perhaps done what you are doing now, which is getting my foot on the career ladder first, and the PhD second. I'm starting to get somewhere, but that's because of networking and taking on skills-based pro bono consultancy work in social research to get my name out there.
Thanks Marasp and Awsoci for the replies.
You are both saying that I could always start PhD later. This is one of the concerns I had. Does spending time working in industry away from studies reflect badly on applying for PhD? As it is, I didn't do too well when I applied straight out of Masters. A few years down the line, would professors reject me because they think I've spent too long away from current research/textbooks? I don't want it to work against me.
Also, I should say that I'm actually REALLY grateful for landing a job. I do know how difficult it is. A good friend of mine and I both finished M.Sc together, and have been living with family for two years cause we couldn't find employment anywhere - not even call centres, or travel agencies!
I hope I didn't come off insensitive towards people here who are similarly unemployed and would consider it the world to find a job - I know I felt that way just a month ago.
Awsoci, about why I want to work in academia, I guess its just my personality type (no, not the obnoxious prof type ;). I love reading, learning and finding new ways to teach hard stuff - its a fulfilling job for me. Yes, I know that is way too idealistic for academia these days, but I wouldn't want to work at the best uni's because of the crazy workload, or chase promotions. I know that it gets pretty messed up in academia, but I suppose its the closest I'll get to what I like doing.
I'd say most potential PhD supervisors would look very favourably at a candidate with industrial experience, even in a slightly different field. I am doing my PhD at a research institute and not a university and at least 80% of my fellow students have worked for a few years after their initial degrees before the PhD and I think it really helps you have the work ethic and experience to make the PhD experience easier. And also shows the potential supervisors that you can put work in. You might forget a little bit of the background knowledge but most people start a PhD knowing very little of their specific topic so that doesn't matter at all.
Like others I would say consider very carefully if academia is for you and whether there are jobs in your field in academia. I know very few people who have actually ended up doing it is not the nice ideal job that you might be imagining, with fewer permanent staff and much higher pressures to publish papers etc it's becoming a harder job all the time.
First of all, take the job, never say no to a decent income!
Second, your work experience (relevant or irrelevant to your potential PhD topic) may actually help you land a PhD, more than your masters degree can do. Work experience is much appreciated in PhD applications. It shows potential supervisors that you can work hard and learn.
If you really want to work in academia, you will find a way. You said that you considered the option of doing a PhD part time. Nobody's stopping you. Also, you will be the one who will choose your PhD topic and field, and your boss or office and the nature of your work have nothing to do with it. I know of someone who is working on internet security (full time) and is doing a PhD in chemical engineering (part time). See? Completely different fields.
Thanks so much for the replies everyone. I can see everyone recommends I take the offer (actually, I'll definitely be doing that - more so because of finances, really).
Moreover, most of the opinions are that work experience, even if in another field, should reflect positively if/when I apply for PhD. That's what I was worried about and your answers are a big relief to me - thanks! :-)
One of my friends just recommended that I try to keep in touch with my academic referees during working life - I might need them when applying in the future.
