You possibly need to documents the publishing works as well. My experiences is it is always good to have something already on your hands rather than a future potential.

You may go with the bullet points in your paper introduction, but they has to clarify what is the purpose and findings of your paper. Then, you may write other bullet points in other sections, e.g. method, results, discussion, and then gradually expand them to a full text section. Paper publication normally takes at least 3 to 4 month. I suggest it would be good to NOT wait some publications, but written the contents up first. Formatting those ideas and knowledge into a text based report. Remember the end of your PhD is your thesis - a text-based report. You could merge the paper draft to your thesis at anytime you want. Somehow, if you've done that, you partially have a chapter of your thesis draft, that is much better and securer than nothing. If you have done these three points, (1) informal report, (2) paper draft, (3) your previous literature review, I have a feeling that you already have a half of your thesis draft. If you are good at writing and very familiar with your research, in two weeks time, you could write up the introduction. Now, you have almost everything. one more year work will bring another fresh content and results which would finalize your thesis. The "worst" case then becomes that, you do not have any publications, but you would have finished the PhD.

Your post reminds my past PhD time. I was in a similar state. At the beginning and middle of the research, I barely talked someone, and I was under a huge pressure to produce something worth for publications. You should seek some external helps for being "not social-able". I just would like to add a bit regarding to "almost no progress". It is common to see a PhD candidate is lost in their research. They cannot define/state what their findings are. I do believe you produced some results, or made some progresses in your field. You need take a week to work out what you have achieved, and try to talk to your supervisors. Tell them you are in the middle, or towards the end of your PhD, you have sorted out an informal report of your current state, findings etc. They also need this doc to catch up, and give you a final mission which might be a big result later. This informal report also could becomes your thesis later. When you doing the actual writing, this note is very helpful for organizing the content.

What I am not happy about is the A suddenly asked this final revision just three weeks before submission, and B seems a kind overreact to this. They just do nothing, but I have to spend money, time on their slowly process. What if the B want a new thesis, what can I do ? Leave his comments along, or re-write my thesis ?

I do not like the A's guidance very much. His very bad supervision wastes my 4 years time and energy. The comments made by A is better than those of yours given by your supervisor. However, A's comments do not help too much. For example, I have demonstrated a new way to solve the highly nonlinear mechanical model, however, he cannot understand it (this is abs ok.) and simply used very rude words to describe those works are pointless. The reason he want B to double check is that, A is not sure about all math on my thesis, he is afraid if there is anything wrong but he did not point out. I am very unhappy of he asking this in the last mins.

MeaninginLife, you should not worry about that too much of those examiner revision. In these days, there is no minor revision, only major one you will have. The term of minor revision is for the case of typo in the modern definition. If any of your examiner want you to add an explanation or more work, they are all called the major revision. You have experience of the paper revision. The thesis review will be less critical than that.

MeaninginLife, supervisor A is a professor in Germany, last month he visited my home and mentioned the examiners. I knew both of them. One of the examiner from EU was the reviewer of my paper. My supervisor A has some chats with him during the conference about my works. He might rise some critical questions about my works as what he did on the paper review. Indeed, my supervisor A and B will have a collaboration with him. They will take an conference opportunity to have a meeting next month in US. You are absolutely right. What if there is a major revision. I did consider this as well. I am not too worry about the other one who has different background and research.

I did ask one month extension for this final revision. The thesis might need a double check with supervisor B. This morning, I have a strong feeling I might overreact due to the stress from the last stage of my PhD.

MeaninginLife, I found A knows nothing of my research and the field of our study, even if he pretend to be an expert in this field in public events. His comments showed his ignorance to the research matter. His comments are just "cosmetic"- as what you commented to your supervisor. Last month, he even complained not enough publications due to my poor writing skill. I am extremely disappointed by his attitude to me. Then, I have decided to no longer stay in academic and has no other future research connections with him. HazyJane, I found B has carefully been keeping away from me in the past four years. The B might have considered I am the student of A, and A thinks I have B. So none of them would like to take willing to give me a normal guidance (do not even mention a good supervision). I have worked very hard in the past four years, and contributed most of my time, holidays in the office/lab and try to get all results. And now, this is the return of the four years hard working under very bad supervisions - I have nothing, no job, unfinished phd, etc..

I am so regret to do this PhD. But I need move forward and push this issue forward. I have even considered to terminate my registration at University. What can I do ??

Yesterday, I talked with the A to explain what the current situation is. He was not worrying about this. He said the B gives me a promises of returning everything on Sunday, I should just wait that. But B just start all read 2 days ago, how could he finish up the entire thesis in a few days. And what B told me is that, he need several weeks for doing so. On the commented chapter 1 that all I got so far, the B has a strong interest to change the structure of thesis. I showed this to A, and A told me to ignore that with a good reason. SO what is the point of asking B to revise the entire thesis. This is purely wasting my time and B's time. At the end of conversation, supervisor A kicked the ball back to me and B, A said that myself should talk to B for figuring out a timetable, etc.. The implication is that this is not his business anymore.

(see the next post please)

MeaninginLife and HazyJane,

I will try to combine my replies to two of your posts above in one post. It could make my story better to read, since I found, indeed, the issues you mentioned are related.

MeaninginLife, about 3 years ago, I have an exactly same case as you had/have now. I drafted a paper about my initial work and some results. I gave it to my supervisor A who is my actual acting mentor. He just kept saying he was busy, and complained the details of the paper. After a few months, he completely ignored the draft, I suppose. Because since then, I've never heard anything about the draft from him till today. This is very irrational/illogical. At the time he had not taken the turner position. Partially it is because of his publications were not enough for that. It means he certainly needed more papers from his students. I am the only one at the time to give him some results. But the fact is that I provided one and he refused subsequently. I do not understand this response. I still could not figure out what went wrong. I believe this becomes "one of unsolved issues" in my life.

HazyJane, I tried to raise the issues in my original post to supervisor A and B. The A seems understand my situation. He gave me a few of verbal supports about my future job searching. That is all. But the B I will not try to make a direct conversation about this. One of his previous students had a similar situation before. He seems not care about the future of the student when the student is trying to leave him, and not doing any post-doc with him or his collaborators. I am serious about this here. That's what B's attitude to the issues. He does not care about you, if you decided to not work with him as the post-doc in future.

(See next post please)

Dear all,

I am currently in a very bad situation. I cannot submit my thesis on time. I know it might be very common to the most PhD students, but my case has a slightly "funny" part.

My PhD research is in the engineering field. I must say my PhD is not bad. In the past 4 years, I have published 2 first-author papers, and 3 none-first author papers,1 corresponding author paper under review, that is even outside of my study subject, but in the same filed of my PhD. Currently I am authoring the other first author paper which is based on the third part of my thesis. I have finished all writing, language checking/rewording (as a none-native speaker, it is a must-be.). My supervisor A, as the acting supervisor, give me a few feedback. we went through about two/three drafts. I have merged all his comments and suggestions, made a double check with the proofreader to ensure everything is perfect. Three months ago, one professor in mechanical engineering department even talked to me about helping/supporting me to get a very prestigious fellowship in Germany.

It seems I could easily get the submission of my thesis on time. However, I CANNOT !! The thesis is ready to be submitted now. At least I think so. But the supervisor A suddenly would like supervisor B to give me more comments about the whole thesis. And He asked this only two or three weeks before the final submission day. My supervisor B is a very responsible person who has lost himself in the details of my thesis and has a slightly new idea about my thesis structure. I am shocked by all happened so far. I know the university policy that I may not need the permission/feedback from supervisors for the final submission, although it is not advisable. But in the current situation, this could be the only solution for my problem. But I do NOT want to take this action which might offend two supervisors.

I could not wait any longer neither, otherwise, I have to pay the additional tuition fees on my own expense. This will also cause more troubles for me to get jobs. I have received lots of rejections due to unfinished PhD on my CV. More importantly, I am constantly worrying about they just simply leave things there, slowly run the process, and keep asking me to renewal the extension, because this is how they supervised me in the past 4 years. The professor in mechanical engineering also seems losing his interest to support me because this slowly unfinished work.

What should I do ?? I appreciate any suggestions here.

I have gave up being a post-doc, or taking other academic jobs. I have even gave up a chance with the humboldt fellowship in Germany. These days, it is too difficult for a PhD to find a academic position after one, or a few, post-docs. And a major problem is that, more PhD holder coming to Market after you. If you cannot quickly figure out a position and produce more publications, you are very likely having trouble in academia. I also believe, a strong research connection is a must-be for anyone want to stay in academia. These connections normally come from your supervisors or other close research collaborations.

No offence, I suppose you are not a native English speaker. So your writing may not meet the highest quality standard for publishing in that journal. It is purely a guessing from myself. I am not native speaker. My writing is bad as you could see here. In that case, your supervisor might re-write a quite lot for better clarity of the content, I presume. It is very common. I also knew a couple of rare cases which the supervisors almost re-write their student's PhD thesis at the stage of proofreading/editing/, before submission.

In the case as I stated above, I recommend you to improve it, rather than struggle with these details. Only your improvement and high quality work can prevent similar case happened in future.

Those who have written 1000+ paper normally do not write any single word. I saw a couple of invited papers in my field which even the manuscript is not prepared by the solo author himself/herself, but the students. The author only acknowledged this, not list these poor students as co-authors.

I suppose most people here are native English speakers. I am not. It is more difficult for me/us to read our own English writing which is my supervisor always complain about. A good writing could be more important than the your results/methodology. I encourage you to read them as much as you could, debug all language issue, e.g. grammar, spelling, re-paragraph, etc. . You will be rewarded by this exercise. If your supervisor see a piece of clear and concise text, I believe he is happy to discuss more academic issues with you.

Dear Vimes. I am in a situation which is even worse than yours. My main-supervisor on the paperwork is not very supportive. In my past 4 years, he keep using excuse saying "I am busy" to not have any meeting with me. Actually, my second supervisor is the true supervisor who, however, is far away in another country, and totally have no idea about the field of my study. The most funny fact is he hold the professor position in this field for couple of years !! I do not know how this happened.

I think there are lots of politics involved in our institute. So these guys keep fighting each other. I am a simple PhD candidate. I just keep pushing my works forward everyday. However, they do not care about me and my works. Once I have a publication comes out, they come and pretend to be one of co-authors who was involved. They do not even give you the supportive idea, just give you lots of rubbish ideas and sometimes purely against you and your paper. They keep questioning all details on your paper, sometimes even lying, and they provide false "fact" to against your idea and results. When the paper is published, they then all disappeared in a thin air. I am saying truth here. If I know situation is like this, I would not do this PhD. It wastes my time.

feel better now....... :)

Dear Dublin, You should wait. However, a good excuse to tell them is the thing you should think about. I also encourage people to apply more as they could, and seriously investigate what potential opportunities these positions could provide. Do not stick on one offer. This should be a "market" which the employers should compete each other, otherwise they will treat poor students very badly.

I also suggest you should have some initial contact with their students (may be visit their lab if possible), and track the publications of these students. You'd better to clarify the following points: (1) How many publications do the students under his/her supervision produced every year; (2) how the supervisor communicate to students, (3) most importantly, do you have any senior team members in the project you involved in your PhD. My experience suggested the supervisor should have a regular face to face contact to student, and it would be good to have a senior member who can provide you experiences in the same research context.

Good luck.

But you'd better to aware of that, they might want people to fill that position as soon as possible due to a timeline of the funding allocation. They might advertise this before the money actually go to their university account. So they can wait you if the time you finish is exactly/roughly match their funding starting day. However, if they are in the middle of this projection, the position won't last long. They cannot wait.

This is somehow due to the time you finish this up. However, it still worth to ask.