I have a paper which makes a very valid point which I want to cite, but they reference it to someone else. I have tried every option but cannot access the second reference so what do I do? 1. reference the second reference who made the original point without being able to check the interpretation, or 2) reference the article I have got.

And how didn't I learn this sort of thing before I got to PhD level?!

From what I have learned, you can mention the second reference saying that this was cited in the first one. e.g. Jone 1988, p. 32 (cited in Gregory 2000, p. 54)

If it really bothers you you could put the reference that you have first followed by something like 'original text - then the reference' in brackets or not. Or you could try find another author who has said the same thing and get their txt

But to be honest as long as you are quoting it from someone that has used and described it, it should be fine, although primary authors are preferable -

At the end of the day if you can't get the ref you can't get it (Oh have you tried google? sometimes you get luck and find it randomly on google unrestricted)

I asked one of the Professors at our Uni if it was a lot harder to write up back in his day and he said no! its a lot harder now because you have too much access, you have to consider everything. back then if they didn't see it, it din't exist!

Just a random ramble

S

as a side note, do you use a Ref manager at the moment? I'm sure if you are far along enough but I just wanted to say that EndNote has made my life soooooo much easier and if you don't use that one or another you should consider it

can you ask the paper author to give you the second paper? if not possible, list that one is fine..

Here it is expected that you will make every effort to find the reference, only citing it as so and so cites someone else as a last resort. Have you asked your academic librarian for help? If the ref is there they should be able to get hold of the article for you, it is better to get it if you can, just to check that the interpretation is correct, and they might have other avenuse you want to explore too!

I agree with Joyce- try to find the original reference (besides you never know whether other people have refered and understood the ideas correctly). Usually your university library will advice on options for getting something that is not available on the place. usually they order it from British Library.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, very helpful