Cheeky e-mail from undergrad student

P

I had an e-mail from a student asking for help with their essay. They asked if the books they were looking at would be relevant and what the direction of the essay question was. They also said they thought they should look at a particular area and was there a list of books on this.
I replied that I wasn't going to give them all the answers as part of studying at university was to learn to do your own research. I said they were on the right lines with the direction they were going in and they should use the library catalogue to find books and articles on this topic. I thought I was very fair with my answer but now I have just received this reply.

"I have done this already but thank you for the advice. I was merely asking for direction
as my tutor last semester was more than helpful in this area. I will remember not to do
so in future. Thankyou for your help, I understand that you are encouraging me to do my
own research."

Not sure how to take this! The tutor last year (who I know) may have been helpful but whenever I reply to questions about coursework I always try to be as helpful as possible without actually telling them what to write. I encourage them to find things out for themselves but would point out if they were going in the wrong direction.

I suppose I should just ignore this e-mail but I am annoyed by her tone.

P

I think the student is probably a little hurt and doesn't mean a single bad thing at all!. When i sent my Msc sup a list of books for essays last year (well, now she is my PhD sup!), she replied saying:

Excellent! But don't forget Scholar X. Also you may wish to cut down a bit.

That was all. And I was happy.

As a person who was writing to tutors and semianr leaders till even 8 months ago, I think this student means absolutely nothing cheeky and probably felt they did something wrong and owed you an explanation.

but mind you, as you notice, I am completely writing from the student's shoes :-)

M

======= Date Modified 07 Mar 2009 21:55:10 =======
Reply and defend yourself more explicitly, because no doubt they'll make a point of complaining on any feedback form.

Edit: I think they are being a little cheeky with you because of the 2nd and 3rd sentence of the email, but then maybe I'm just too cynical.

S

I wouldn't reply to the student, mainly as the last thing you want to do is escalate the situation, but I do agree that lines 2 and three are a little *rsey for want of a better word, and they may make a comment on feedback forms. I've had students ask me to find them a book, or read through entire essays before they submit them. I've got around this by saying that I am willing to look at essay plans or short pieces of text (up to 150 words/couple of short paragraphs) but that's it.
In your situtation, is there a module leader you could just send a brief email to, or a member of staff who you could let know, just to cover your back?

C

Personally, I wouldn't reply further. You don't want to get into tit-for-tat argument. I ended up being drawn into something like this a couple of years ago regarding my comments on an essay. In the end, I decided that it was stupid trying to defend myself because I had nothing to defend. I would just keep an eye on the student and if you think there are likely to be further problems or there is further cheeky correspondence, make the course unit director aware of possible problems. In my case, they were very supportive.

C

Unfortunately I think it sums up alot of students today who want to be spoon fed and are there for the experience or because it's expected and not necessarily to learn! There isn't the same thirst for knowledge and I think alot of them don't honestly know why they are there! You should hear some of the crackers our students come up with! Having said that I know it's not true for all students but it's a sad state of affairs if this happens in academia! There has been alot of talk about standards and marking in our dept!

M

Students are more cheeky now because they are paying for their education, so they expect more in return. But so many of them fail to realise the difference (or are not told the difference) between being spoon-fed at A level and independent learning/creative thought at university level. Although, I remember having this drilled into me by our HoD in the first week of my degree. I say reply to the above email, because, first, the person should not be let off with his/her comments, and, second, students are only too keen to complain now, so one needs to constantly cover one's arse.

A few guys in my old university used to call the HoD 'the manager' because they were paying fees, and when anything went awry, e.g. a long queue in the library, calls of 'where's the manager?' could be heard.

P

I;m sure everyone here below is right...I guess I was thinking of giving the student the benefit of the doubt because, often students who are very enthusiastic and very keen do seek that extra bit of support, even if just a nod that they are doing OK! But Pamw will know the student, and will know what exactly they are like, which is crucial to deciding what they may have meant.

B

Hi Pam

I agree with PhDBug and you should picture the student and then decide. If she is a keen student generally, it's more likely she was, as she says, doing these things but just wanted to seek reassurance. In some of the books I've read about students and learning they talk about two types of students 'cue-deaf' and 'cue-seeking'. The latter are described as those who, as a criteria for success, will seek to improve their understanding of what is required by "button-holing staff to probe them for information" about what they have to do and why they have to do it. Apparently (and perhaps naturally) these students do best in exams, etc. Is this being spoon-fed? I don't know. It depends, I guess. For direction, I would have thought it was okay to give some feedback on the books listed by the students and, as you appear to have done... perhaps suggest a general direction, e.g. have you thought of looking at key theorists in this area, such as X (and only naming say 1 to give a general sense of direction). On writing back, it is a tricky one... you don't want to put yourself in the position of defending yourself but at the same time, you might not want to leave a student thinking that the door to dialogue is closed. If it was me, I'd be tempted to ask her to drop in for a quick 5 minute chat as these things are difficult to sort out by email as, as is clear from the discussion here, tone (and intention/perception) is difficult to determine in this mode.

P

I hate to go against the grain but I think maybe you were slightly unfair on the student in the first instance.
I still go to my supervisor and ask for reading guidance (having looked myself) if I'm struggling, and this is what he expects.
Undergraduate is a BIG jump from sixth-form level and you can't suddenly expect students to jump head-first into the adult world of researching. Requesting addition readings can be quite nerve-wracking for undergrads (in my experience) and you don't really want to quell their enthusiasm.

P

I hate to go against the grain but I think maybe you were slightly unfair on the student in the first instance.
I still go to my supervisor and ask for reading guidance (having looked myself) if I'm struggling, and this is what he expects.
Undergraduate is a BIG jump from sixth-form level and you can't suddenly expect students to jump head-first into the adult world of researching. Requesting addition readings can be quite nerve-wracking for undergrads (in my experience) and you don't really want to quell their enthusiasm.

P

Quote From pamplemousse:

I hate to go against the grain but I think maybe you were slightly unfair on the student in the first instance.
I still go to my supervisor and ask for reading guidance (having looked myself) if I'm struggling, and this is what he expects.
Undergraduate is a BIG jump from sixth-form level and you can't suddenly expect students to jump head-first into the adult world of researching. Requesting addition readings can be quite nerve-wracking for undergrads (in my experience) and you don't really want to quell their enthusiasm.


Hmm...tend to agree...am absolutely sure Pamw was not being unfair at all, but as one of those enthusiastic students who likes bits of direction and a reassuring nod, perhaps that's all the student was looking for. My sup writes things like "this is all great (or not, whatevr be the case)...now that you've worked out your difficulties and doubts, you'll soon find a way forward yourself." That's a good way I guess to end the conversation and make the student feel good.

P

Thanks for all the replies, lots to think about there. I think one of the main problems is that more and more GTAs have to teach subjects which are out of their areas, so although I know enough to be able to take seminars, and know whether people are on the right lines for their essays, I can't recommend books as I just don't know the field well enough. The course I'm teaching has four sections, each on completely different topics in the general area, taught by four different lecturers. How are GTAs supposed to know all of this. Therefore I can only go from the course bibliography and suggest they do more research in the library to find additional works.
I don't really know what she wanted me to say as she was on the right lines and I told her so. Unfortunately I've only taught the class once so far so do not really know her as a student yet.
I think I may e-mail her again and ask if she has five minutes at the end of the seminar next week as it's easier to talk face to face and if she has an esay plan I could look at that.

P

Pamw.... I think that's a very good idea; emails are very easy to misinterpret (or just not get the subtleties of what you're getting at across) so that would enable you to see more clearly the full situation. Also.... she's unlikely to give you poor feedback if you've taken the time to meet her face to face, even briefly.

P

Incidentally, I really feel for you with them not being your specialist area.... but I wouldn't be afraid to admit this. That way you can then suggest that X might be a better person to talk to. Undergrads have a tendency to think that if you're doing a PhD you have all the answers.

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