I'll try to keep my case as short as possible.

I want to quit my PhD. I'm pretty much clear on that, but I'm posting this message to ask the more experienced people, how I can do it smart way, such that I don't end up being blocked for a (good) job or perhaps even an another PhD position elsewhere.

The problem is: the supervisor. - (let me share a bit of a background such that you don't think I'm a complainer or a troublemaker. Those that believe me already, you don't need to read)
The problem started early, but I totally overlooked it. I was admitted into a nice-sounding, interdisciplinary research project with "lots of money involved" and "broad community". It was supposed to be a dream (not easy! - challenging) project giving challenges and satisfaction. The supervisor was a nice woman, known as a kind and social person, who made a lot of promises. However I got to know here better and gradually realised that all those promises were fake and intended to drag me into the project and expoit. She turned out to be egotistic, with little knowledge, who needed a "winning horse" to push the way...

I struggled.

Then it turned out that the lab facillities are fresh and lack expertise.. I struggled even more, preparing the way for both me and the MSc students... both merithorically and formally I was leading the enterprenourship.

For the last 15 months, I worked 150-200%. I tried to change myself, change her (series discussions with the councellor) or simply pretending to listen to stupid advice, but carrying on. Although she's satisfied with me (only when the results come), I'm fed up.

but there's one issue:

Both the country and community are small and she's generally liked by everyone for being social...... how can I quit "smoothly and gently"? How to make sure that the recommendations I get are at worse neutral? I don't I want to endure this PhD for 1.5 more years...

You shouldn't quit, you should stick to it. You already did half of the work.

You just described my life.

Just keep swimming.

Hi Careful

I would second what Dr Jeckyll said above.

Keep going. Try not to let this person annoy you. 18 months will go quicker than you think. Try to break it into shorter blocks of time, and give yourself small rewards eg a day out, a trip to see a show, at the end of every month for sticking with it..

Angelette

In my opinion, if you think this PhD is going nowhere you should quit it early than suffer more years. you can just use reasons like family emergency and i have to be with my family for a while. and quit smoothly.

Hi Carefull, your description of your supervisor doesn't really provide the reasons that justify you leaving. Many supervisors only know general information about the area of study. Often where they provide guidance is in how to go about collecting data, writing proposals, and writing up the PhD. Even then the guidance is only that-guidance. You do the work and then they may comment or suggest you follow something up or think about an aspect of the topic.

For example, my meetings with my supervisor -which I have officially once every two months-would be once a month if I were full time-we often just have a long conversation. She may have read a draft of something I am writing but sometimes not. The advice and guidance she gives is often of the sort "You might want to consider enrolling in NVIVO-as this could help when you are doing some analysis". Often I bring up the major milestones and request specific information, etc. She is nice but very much a 'guide' who gets on with her own research and expects me to get on with my work as well.

Many PhD students would be expected to take on 'leading roles' in the guidance and support of students who are completing degrees that are 'below' the PhD in hierarchy (undergrad, course work Master students, etc).

So, I would tend to agree with Angelette and DrJeckyll (who made me really laugh) and 'just keep swimming'. However, if you really hate the PhD as it is something that is making you thoroughly miserable and/or having one is really not going to be part of your future life plan then Bichu's advice gives you a way to go gracefully.

The other thing to remember is that PhD students are not treated like undergrad students. As an undergrad if you are a really good student , you will often be carefully nurtured by staff. With PhD studies, it often ends up being more like a workplace, where managers often act just like your supervisor (and sometimes even worse) and people just have to learn to deal with it or find another job.
(I am not saying here that severe workplace bullying is something people should put up with-but poor management is pretty commonplace and you do have to put up with that).

Good luck with your decisions.

Can you write up your current results an bail with an MPhil? At least you'll have something to how for your time to date.

I know what Angelette and Dr. Jeckyll are saying, however, I'm going to disagree with them. I know from my second post-doc that if you are miserable in a given position, all you want to do is get out. Like you, the gentleman who was in charge was outwardly charming, however, once employed I found him to be overcontrolling and yes, egotistical when I think back now. There's more, but I don;t want to be boring about it.

I tried to quit halfway through the post-doc, however, I was remined I would not be entitled to unemployment benefit if I quit and I was forced to see it out. I literally counted the days until my contract expired.

I note you mention a counsellor and if the situation has got so bad you need to see one, then perhaps the best thing to do is withdraw (use the 'family problems' excuse). A PhD is a challenge in itself without poor relations with the supervisor making it harder. It is not worth your mental health.


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

I'll add if you'd been within about 6 months of the end, my answer would have been different and I'd have suggested you see it through. But 15 months in with 21 months or more to go is a long way to go, to tolerate a situation where you felt you needed to seek counsellor guidance.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Thank you all for very honest replies.

I will rethink, however at least I have the feeling of trying everything...
1. changing my approach, making the meetings more 'formal'
2. honest talk
3. working hard, delivering on her needs and deadlines
4. asking for a co-supervisor (and being refused)
5. talking to the PhD concellour, and being forced to make a precise plan
6. being asked twice to make the plan as vague as possible by my supervisor... (looks like someone is afraid of taking responsibility....)
7. forcing the supervisor to get a co-sup (being granted, but the guy tries to avoid confrontations, paying on the same lines as her for safety)

The problem is that she has no knowledge, no 'vision' of this PhD project and yet she feels indispensible and tries to interfere with everything. I'm quite sure that comes from the fear of being seen as incompetent... especially she the co-supervisor suggest something good, she tries to add-on to it making it even more stupid than it initially was. My point rarely matters to her, whereas her advice are often contradictory and when shown/proven so, she reacts with anger and dispair. I'd feel much more comfortable having no supervisor than having her, but I got an "unspoken message" from the faculty that if someone is to be changed, it'll be me.

Well... I guess the only way to carry on is to pretend to do as she says, but doing my things. But that's bloody hard, when you're asked to tackle both theory and practice and especially in the fresh scientific environment where you have 3-6 months to build what was achieved the last 20 years in other countries. Doing only that would make me feel strong... but the presonal struggle against someone sho sticks her nose all the time, but escapes when the responsibility comes in, makes me ...depleted.

I would feel much better knowing that "I don't have to do it".
Any more ideas, besides "family reasons"?

Hi Carefull13

Isn't there a compromise position? Not compromising with your supervisor I mean - but yourself. Say that for health reasons (which you don't need to specify as it is totally confidential) that you need a break for a month or two whilst you consider your position. Over that time you will get thinking whether quitting is the right thing to do. So go to your doctor, say you're overworked (true) stressed (true) and exhausted (true) and get yourself signed off for a break. Or just say you need an urgent holiday - it sounds like you haven't had one yet - and have a break for a month. I think you just need some breathing space to contemplate things, then come back afresh and you might find you're enjoying it after all. I think just throwing the towel in without a break first , without contemplation, well you might regret it.

She sounds like a difficult supervisor. Such people are abundant in the workplace and often just have to be tolerated until one can get a new position or get clear of them somehow through promotion or a sideways move. I have 20 months to go of a similar situation not related to my study though, so I know how long this time can be and how you just have to grit your teeth and get on with it at times.

However, this is your Phd not a job so I'd also agree with both Ian and Anon- give yourself some thinking time, so that you don't make an impulsive decision you might regret later, and if you must leave, then try to get something out of it for yourself, so that your work is not wasted.

You know, Anon mentioned a break for a month-at my own university, you can just put in for a month's holiday without any reason, other than you have chosen to take your annual holiday at that time. What if you did that-and this helped you work out a new plan-or simply gave you enough of a break to be able to either finish or wrap it up into a smaller project.

Good luck-it is a tough situation.

You mentioned that "Then it turned out that the lab facilities are fresh and lack expertise.. I struggled even more, preparing the way for both me and the MSc students."

But your departure may affect the MSc students!? It seems that the MSc students are dependent on you... If you leave, the MSc students' work could be delayed? This will be the havoc?

Perhaps you feel that you are kind of "cheap labour"; but you are expected to develop the lab facilities? However, if the lab facilities do not have good technical support, then this is your current challenge?
The problem could be your supervisor has scientific knowledge; but not equipment knowledge?

Just imagine that one month later, there will be a new thread in this forum: "PhD student left; lab facilities are as good as useless?"

It's not that dramatic. By 'havoc' I mean my supervisor gets angry and tries to revange by giving bad references to any potential employer.

I'm not worried about the MSc students. First of all, it's her responibility, not mine. Second, they're doing fine and soon will be finished.

The labs have technical support, but they don't have process developers... in this way they're fresh. There needs to be few 'generations' of PhD students that will contribute and spin it off. I'm the first, so I get the hardest (and also most self-developing!) task. The problem is that the 'little bricks' I put one by one are not something I can publish. So it's a lot of husstle, but very low potential for giving off publications. As I said, it's a great and challenging job (so far I like it the most), but that's not going to help my PhD much... not if it's not carefully planned.
And yes, my supervisor has little equipment knowledge, but on the theoretical end she's not that strong either.

And the facillities? Well, there's going to be a next person, I'm sure.

You just missed the opportunity of an impressive resume which could include your help in developing the labs. It may also be possible to write papers with the engineers who support the equipment.

If your supervisor has very strong theoretical knowledge, you may also become a cheap labour... simply follow instructions for your thesis...

The question is whether they have high hope on you to develop the lab facilities, and the procedures for equipment etc... If this is the case, they are unlikely going to give you good references.

That's really not Carefull13's responsibility. Any PI who places the success of their operations on a PhD student is probably to be avoided. It's bad management - if the PI wanted a senior technician or a lab manager, she should have hired one.

As for the initial question - it's a tricky situation. I quit a PhD a few years ago, and am currently doing another one (with a job and an MSc in between). My reasons for quitting were partly due to wanting to change field, but largely motivated by a particularly nasty environment in my department. The desire to change fields made it easier, as it gave me an 'excuse', but the truth is that had it been a nice and supportive place I'd have stuck it out just to tick the PhD box and then moved on.

Unless I've missed it, I don't think you've mentioned what your longer term aims are. Do you want to carry on in this field? Or in lab science in general? This might affect whether it's worth your while sticking it out. If you do get to the end of it, you'll probably find your next post a breeze!

Is it possible to try to pursue the co-supervisor option further? If it was just your main supervisor who refused, check your uni's student regulations, talk to a postgrad tutor and see if there's any way you could get a co supervisor. Might make all the difference. If you're in the UK, say you're worried about not finishing in time - that might get their attention.

Yes. Ideally, there should be lab manager. But they may have limited funding?

Carefull13 claimed that he was working very hard: 150-200%. There seemed to be some kind of agreement on developing lab facilities whether verbal or written.

Sometimes it is about managing expectations...