Hi all, a nosy thread from me.

Do you include the menial tasks- taking back/getting out library books, filling out forms, organizing folders etc. in your daily work hours?

Today for example, I had to chase up my second supervisor about a form I needed him to send. He asked me to wait for an hour so I went to the office and, having no work with me, sat and read a book on thesis writing (useful but again, not essential). I went through the forms with him and then went to the library and sorted out some books. By the time I got home I'd spent a good few hours doing PhD-related things but had done no actual written work or proper reading.
Would you then sit down for a full 8 hours of proper work or would you say you'd 'worked' for 3 hours already?

I'm trying to do the regular working hours thing and am curious to see what other think.

That depends on you as everyone is different. It's a fine line as those things are time consuming and necessary and contribute to your PhD so could be considered as work (like when you are trying to tell yourself you are working!) but in I wouldn't count it as work in the tradiitonal sense! I wouldn't be so concerned about trying to fit to such a rigid structure as PhDs are flexible and work to whatever suits you and know that occassionally you will have to do these tasks which sometimes are just a pain and other times a bit of relief from doing routine stuff and factor it into the day! Afterall you might as well the opportunity to have flexible working hours so long as you actually do some work - if you are having an bad/unproductive day you can take a break if research permits and come back to it later and perhaps you might get into it better feeling refreshed and then work later. The danger is procrastinating too much and not noticing time slip away which can happen as sometimes it seems so slow when you are doing it and before you know the month is over! Hope this helps!

I do count menial tasks as work. After all, if I did not do them, I could not do the rest of the work (reading, writing, data analysis whatever). I try and do those tasks as quickly as possible though and always do a bit of "real work" at some point during the day, even when lots of menial tasks need to be done. Sometimes that obviously does not work out, and I find these things come in phases. If you do the regular working hours thing, then I think it is useful to recognise when your best time of the day is and do proper research during that time and stick to it. Maybe some admin work, going to the library etc. can be done after lunch or at the end of the day when the brain is having a break/ is getting tired. A Friday afternoon seems to be best time for filing, I find.:-)

I'd count it - if you were in an office job the menial tasks fit into the day in the same way as important project work would, for example. I just think in terms of a working day though - I work 9-6 in which time I do admin stuff, email, even travelling time, as well as 'real work'. The important thing for me though is that I'm getting stuff done - if I need to do more then I start working evenings and weekends. That's only really if I've lost time during the normal week for some reason (a bad unproductive day, or a day when I've fitted in non-work stuff like doing the shopping or seeing a friend) and have pressing deadlines. I try to think of all PhD stuff as work and the rest of my life as non-work, and divide them like I would a job.

I pretty much consider anything you do between the course of actually getting stuff done is work. It's still a sort of labor - not your fault you had to wait for this or that - still counts.

Thanks everyone, good to get some perspectives.

I think counting these types of things as 'work' will actually help because right now I don't have much of an idea of how many hours of 'real work' I will actually be able to do, and so my work plans are unrealistic. And Megara, I agree that it will help structure my day. At the moment I often count the menial tasks as something to do 'in my spare time' but that means the irregular hours start creeping in. Although, as you all say, flexibility is needed too.

Thanks all (up)