Signup date: 15 May 2007 at 2:40pm
Last login: 24 Dec 2007 at 10:55am
Post count: 472
The emotional types here have argued that lamp has a right to say it's actually "love" and not just a simple "crush" (that, in particular coming from someone whose username is "Rosy").
I've never seen this movie but I get the impression it'll be the same kind of thing:
I agree with badhaircut with the exception that quite often scientific PhDs can be very isolating for the PhD student as well, especially when you've got tests after tests to do on your own. And you're often doing it alone because you've had to book the equipment or lab or room when no one else is about.
"RogueAcademic sits at the right of God the Father and 'knowns' how Lamp feels and is ready to label her feelings as 'teenage hormonal emotions'."
Wow.. are you seriously bringing religion into this? By the way Corinne, if by "right of God the Father" you mean "university ethical standards committee", you'd be right. And yes the committee has the right to tell it to their faces that what she's thinking of doing is a no-no right before we dispense harsh disciplinary measures. That is, if we don't decide to let them go first.
"Lamp might be 29, 30... for all we know and would you then still call it "High School"?"
oz - that is my point exactly.
"Why on earth should Lamp (or any other person) be held to the judgement of people who do not know her?"
I'm pretty sure it is specifically outlined in your university's documentation for ethical conduct. That's why. I hardly think 'junior staff' in this context would be construed as non-contentious.
Either way, the superficiality her declarations of love at this time only suggests emotional immaturity.
C'mon now, junior staff? They are PhD students and that is how the media and the rest of the community sees it. To the rest of the world, it's a scandal and universities don't like scandals. If you are not convinced, go speak to any one of the professors on the appropriate committee. It is more so a scandal if you consider the possibility that one or both of them may be married, worse still with kids.
And by the way, they don't share a 'personal life' yet. They have a professional relationship at present, and at least one of them cannot keep their teenage hormonal emotions under control. She is "in love" with someone whom she doesn't even know if there are mutual feelings of "love". As I was saying, sounds very high school to me.
Don't let this bad experience deter you from pursuing a PhD in a field you're interested in (or was previously interested in). There are many many atrocious supervisors out there, you happened to sign up with one. They're not all bad. That is the reason why a PhD application should really be a two-way process, where the applicant is given an opportunity to visit the lab, meet the people and have a chat first.
Either way, I am known amongst my friends and colleagues for being upfront and brutally honest at times depending on the circumstances. And yes I would respond the same way in person although to be honest my delivery doesn't sound as harsh as it looks online. I'm seeing lamp's predicament with a sense of humour more than it's coming through on the computer screen and that's probably why I understand where Matt's response is coming from. But anyway when it comes down to it, if they want to dig their own graves, who am I to stand in their way.
This isn't about 'vision of the world'. This is about two people who are about to destroy their professional reputation and credibility as well as the standing of their academic institution. You put these two in front of a university ethics and academic standards committee and the couple will get blasted for their actions (if they had gone beyond their professional supervisor/student relationship). Would you say the ethics and academic standards committee are merely harping on about their 'vision of the world' too? I think not. There are very clear PROFESSIONAL standards with very clear lines. These two wouldn't be treated with kid gloves by any university committee.
The only people who would give two hoots about their PERSONAL standards are their respective partners/families who have absolutely no idea this is going on.
And if something does develop between these two, if they are found out, the university's ethical standards committee would come down hard on them, not to mention the devastating effect of their respective partners and/or families.
Is it worth it? (She'll say yes! Yes! It's all worth it! Because I love him! Even though I don't know how he feels!).
The best advice to give here is: grow up. Prioritise and gain some emotional wisdom and regain control of your life with the maturity of an adult with half a brain.
If it is really worth it and both are willing to make sacrifices, then they should come clean with their respective partners/families. Then the right thing to do is to cease their professional relationship as supervisor/student. Find another supervisor or student in the meantime. Or hold it off until she completes her PhD and if the mutual feelings are still there, then do what needs to be done.
Until then, it's high school all over again.
I beg to differ - it is part of the high school experience you will read about in every high school yearbook. The teen hormones, the fleeting eye contact across the classroom, the pubertal 'he loves me, he loves me not' mentality, the 'secret-crush' entries in their diaries, the love notes passed around in class.
The difference here is that the teens in this story are not actually in their teens anymore. They're adults. They're adults with careers requiring professionalism, involving years of hard work, academic ethical standards, moral standards, reputations, respective families, possibly even children... they're all at stake.
Why? Cos somebody has a crush. It's not 'love'. Emails are exchanged every day but it appears nothing has been said, nothing's been exchanged, there has been no heart-to-heart D&M discussion about the consequences, there has been no formal confirmation or acknowledgment. She doesn't even 'know how he feels'.
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