Hi all,

long time lurker here. I am in my last stages (after 6 years) of a medical sciences/morphology-based PhD in Ireland and have to submit by September.

My problem is that I didn't do any writing at the beginning and find it very hard now to write the chapters. I am glad I am coming to an end now. I did my PhD part-time although registered full-time (I work in the same department) and I am not a traditional student as such. I went straight from diploma into working life and after some years I got the opportunity to register for the PhD. I thought I was registered part-time but surprisingly it was full-time and I have to submit now by September.

I am not confident at all although I have two peer-reviewed papers published as the main author in the two highest journals in my fields (there is an overlap in my PhD) and also two conference publications as well as some minor presentations but I am still not confident that it is enough. I have ideas for a third and maybe a fourth publication after the thesis but am not sure if I will even have a thesis by September :-(

It's just such a drag, I sit in front of the computer and know I should write, even a small paragraph or something but cannot bring myself to do it. I thought having the deadline and also having the external examiners confirmed (at this stage) would give me the boost to finish it properly but I found the exact opposite is the case.

Another problem is that there is no comparable thesis in our department which I could use as a model as no thesis has been produced in my field here since the 1940's! The general policies on thesis presentation are relatively general, structure, pagination, binding etc. but we don't have minimum or maximum amount of words and whenever I compare it to other Universities theses it feels like a fraud as there are much less pages or words.

By the way, I have a great supervisor who is available to me almost every day (he's just a couple of doors down from my office) but I still cannot get motivated enough to write the thesis. :-(

Any ideas to get out of this mire would be much appreciated ,-)

Danzig

Have you got chapter headings? If not, get some:-) once you have done that, get yourself some large bits of paper, sort of A2 size, give each chapter a piece of paper and jot down bits that have to go in each one, make sure you give yourself time to get down all your thoughts. This is your framework. If there is no limit on words make one up, i think the average science thesis is about 60000, so divide this between your chapters, number your thoughts on your pieces of paper and get writing, don't worry too much about getting the first few sentences right, just get the stuff down. This should get you going.If you want to, do a bit in each chapter, if you get an idea whilst writing something else jot it down somewhere immediately, or you will forget it. good luck :-)

Joyce's advice is really good. I'd also recommend that you don't start at the beginning of the thesis, or any specific chapter. Just write whichever bit is most appealing (or least unappealing?). Breaking the ice is often the hardest thing - that blank page syndrome. But if you start with something, even if it's way through the thesis and not at the start, that might help you crack on to the next bit.

The other thing I do a lot, and a slight variant on what Joyce said, is to draw up lots of lists of things I could be getting on with and subsections. Then I rank them in terms of most appealing downwards, and start picking them off. It's helped pull me out of a patch where I haven't been able to get on with writing at all.

Something else that works for me is recording my thoughts on the computer or a voice recorder. My reasoning for this is that I can often think more clearly and quickly than I can type. So if I get the thoughts recorded I can then play it back and type it up. And again it's a start, and getting somewhere.

Good luck!

great advice given by Joyce and Bilobaggins.

i know how you feel, i was like you last year, i was given a deadline in may to submit by september, and i had nothing really written for my thesis. and felt lost and demotivated all the time, till people made me realise the reason i felt like this was cause i was overwelmed by the sheer amount of work i had to get done.

it is scary writing a thesis. but the only way to do it, is to focus on tiny little tasks, one thing at a time. and just get through them.

basically my advice is similar.

sit down with a large piece of paper, and make a spider diagram, of all the things you want to put in your thesis. the chapters etc.

you said you have 2 papers already published thats really fantastic ! can you use the material from the paper as a foundation for some of your thesis chapters?

i too had 2 papers published and used them as a basis for two of my chapters. obviously you need to expand on the papers and elaborate on them. but its a good place to start.


i too did a biology based thesis. and i believe the maximum word limit is 100,000 words. but usually a science thesis is around 60,000 - 80,000 words.

dont worry about the word limit right at this stage! its quality not quantity that counts.

basically you will have your introduction chapter - that introduces your subject. gives all the foundation as to why you did your project.
then comes to materials and methods chapter - where you throw in all your methods in there.

then you will have a few results chapters.

the way i did it, each results chapter, had a paragraph introducing the results. THE RESULTs, and a small disucssion on the results. and then i did a big conclusion discussion chapter trying to tie everything together. (my supervisor still said my thesis was poorly written but heck i gave it my best shot, and HAD to submit it by the deadline or would have failed)

bottom line, just start by working on zero drafts. dont worry about it being perfect, or accurate or correct.

i would recommend a book that was my bible throughout last year. "how to write your thesis in 15 minutes a day" by joan bolker. she really helped me ALOT.

its great that your supervisor is around.

what my supervisor told me to do, was to make a plan for my thesis. with chapter headings, and what each chapter would contain, like section headings. do that first, kinda like a table of contents, and then show your supervisor, if this is correct, and then your job is to simply fill in those section headings. think of writing your thesis, one section (1 paragraph) at a time.

good luck! you can do it! just do abit on your thesis everyday. even if its just working for 15 minutes and writing down key words.
(up)

Hi Joyce,

thank you very much for your reply!
:-)

Yes, I have to try getting things more organised. It is very chaotic at the moment. I do have a thesis outline, chapter by chapter and also preliminary chapter headings. I come from a non-academic background and the pressure is quite big (everyone in the family was/is thrilled that I have the opportunity to do a doctorate) and I cannot really allow myself to fail but it is getting really on my nerves. The more they ask how I am doing the more I want to say that I am doing nothing (which is exactly what I am doing at the moment) :-s

I am very impressed by everyone here spending so much of their time on the thesis. I did put it the hours when it came to data collection and data analysis but for the thesis it is really quite slow.

I think you are right when you say: do bits on each chapter. Maybe I should explain, it is not that I don't have anything on paper at the moment. I had some good energetic bursts last year and have a chaotic draft outline of most chapters but actually going back to them is the hard bit. I am probably just sick of looking at the topic. :-)

Thanks for your advise, Joyce, I'm sure I will pick things out that suit me (I am not the organised type :$ )

Best wishes,
Danzig

Hi bilbobaggins (oh no, my favourite type of procrastination is watching the whole trilogy in one go!!)
;-)

thanks very much for your comments. You are right, it is easier when you start with something you like. That is how I did the chaotic first draft or partial draft of some of the chapters (I explained in my answer to Joyce). It is hard now to go back and look at each chapter skeleton/outline and flesh it out.

I procrastinate a lot by just pulling out lots and lots of recent papers to read so I don't have to write. And then it's like "oh I should put this in, I should mention that...etc". Feels like it never comes to an end.

Similarly with my data and the results. I have quite a lot of "half-backed" results which I want to leave out and follow up after the thesis. There's just not enough time to follow them up for inclusion but I feel it weakens my thesis if I only present a narrow question and answers.

Thanks again for your help, BB! :-)

Danzig

Hi Lara,

thanks for your comments! I followed your story with great interest and must say, fair play to you, you wrote your thesis in an almost impossible time and submitted it! (up)

Yes, I do have a preliminary outline of the chapters and titles. I should have mentioned that but I left so much out in my first post. :$

The two papers I mentioned are forming two of the main chapters of the thesis, you are right. There is no problem in using them as part of the thesis, in fact, it is expected of me by my supervisors and, as far as I know, the examiners.

My biggest problem is that I don't know when to stop. When to stop reading new papers, rereading old papers, etc.
I have no problems talking about the subject of my thesis and, I think, I can demonstrate that I have understood how to conduct research independently, but when it comes to writing it all it just seems such a big boring task!

Your ideas for the thesis reflect exactly what I had in mind! I have structured it similarly, an introduction chapter with the literature, Materials and Methods, 4 chapters with the experimen

Apart from reading them so you don't have to write is there any other justification for the reading? If not stop! Or at least don't pull out another paper to read until you've written something, even if it's just a page or similar. Make bargains with yourself and make progress that way. Even if it involves chocolate! Or drawn up a list of things to write.

Going over recent papers isn't going to help you explain YOUR results. And it's not going to get your thesis written. You need to start from what you've done and cover that. The more other papers you refer to the more you're going to dilute what you really need to say.

I know this is easier said than done. But I'm speaking as a fellow procrastinator! ;-) I've had to drag myself up from difficult patches too many times. It's easier not to get on with things. But you need to find a solution that works for you: something that will get you starting writing again, even in a small way.

Deadlines are usually a major motivation for me. Terror usually gets me going! I'm also coming to the end of a 6-year PhD, though mine is definitely part-time (6 years is the time allowed for part-timers at my uni).

Quite right, what you said make so much sense! (up) I should write about my results and not try to put it into context with every new paper that is published. That's a neverending process.

I only got this extra sixth year because of a year I lost due to illness. One problem is that after a normal working day you don't really want to sit down in the evening and do the writing bit but I think it becomes more and more clear that I just have to bite the bullet. Motivating myself is a bit hard but, apart from the topic I work on at the moment, I love my research field and would be happy spending time doing more research but without the pressure of having to get that degree. :p

Hi Danzig, it really is scary how similar you sound to me last year!!!

aww you followed my story ? that's so sweet. thank you so much for your kind words, I really appreciate it. :) very kind of you!

that's really great you got a preliminary outline! you're already on your way then :) and great stuff you can use the papers. that will definately impress the examiners, that part of your work has already been peer reviewed, and how can they argue with that! its good for the old confidence aswell.

i had the EXACT same problem with you, i was DROWNING IN PAPERS!! i kept saying, i have to read 100 papers before i can even start to write. but with a deadline, you really have to tell yourself STOP and focus on the REALLY important papers. and you have to draw the line, as hard as it is. you have to consolidate. if you cant, just put a post it on the papers, that you think MIGHT be important, and flag them to read later for your viva prep.
right now, your aim is to write your theis in X amount of time, and so you have to think realistically how much you can read and incorporate, and also remember the more references you put in, the more you will have to know for your viva! so keep some stuff aside, and just leave them for viva prep.

this bit of advice always helped me aswell, your thesis is NOT an enclyopedia, or a reference book, it CANNOT have everything in it. so your first job, is to do a quick pubmed search on the MOST recent review articles related to your subject, read them, make notes, even copying out verbatim is fine.

i know how you feel, because i have literally been there.

so i went back to my diary thread, and found this procrastination website, that really helped me.

i'm quoting myself now, lol

http://davidmaister.com/blog/18/Done-at-Last-Thoughts-on-Procrastination

which a forum member once told us about! but i cant find that thread anymore lol

"But there are deeper reasons for procrastination, and one is depression, which can make concentration difficult. Perfectionism, self-doubt and relentless self-criticism can also accompany depression—if you don’t think that what you will do is very good, or good enough, it’s hard to begin."Wendy Leibowitz

{quote}
"Divide everything you have to do into smaller, easy bites.

Set realistic time goals to complete your bite-size tasks, and then plan to take a break.

Promise yourself that you will only work for ten minutes.

Adopt the mental dump approach: just do something and plan to change it later. You can always revise what you’ve done. Most work needs refinement. Drafting something –anything – helps you to avoid your saying, “I didn’t do anything today.” You did, it just needs further work!

Tell yourself this is not supposed to be the best thing you’ve ever done. Tell yourself that you can write a “B” assignment. A completed assignment tha

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cont...(oh thank the Lord that i did copy my message - before hitting submit! as a backup, cause i reached message limit!)

{quote cont..}

Tell yourself this is not supposed to be the best thing you’ve ever done. Tell yourself that you can write a “B” assignment. A completed assignment that is adequate is better than the best thing you’ve ever done that exists only in your head." {unquote}

in the beggining, when i first started to write my thesis, i was frozen with fear! i kept jumping out of my seat every chance i got.

the following stuff helped me.

having a timer, set to 15 minutes, and literally forcing myself to type, it could be utter nonsense, or just crap, but i was not allowed to stop until i wrote on X subject for 15 minutes. this is known as free writing. and you might suprise yourself!

also i was told that its okay to just copy out notes from papers, and not worrying at this stage about writing it in your own words, but just make sure you have it highlighted that its "verbatim" notes, you dont wanna get done for plagerism. but sometimes you just want to copy out a sentence, and you might use it somewhere but not sure where. i use "red font" for stuff that is copied. and in paragraphs i put the source. i was told by a fellow member, that psychologically, even just writing out notes verbatim, is helpful,

"psychologists were arguing that the best way to write first, was to first write loads and loads of rubbish, be it copies and pasted stuff, or stuff from the top of your head and then edit it down. apparently people who write like that are loads more productive than those who plan meticulously and try to write perfectly first time "

another technique, is to say to yourself, i have to write 3-4 pages of writing everyday, once i have done, i can reward myself with X activity or treat.

the one thing that really helps me , is to set myself really really small tasks. like "read paper" and make notes, even if im just copying verbatim the important points i need to include in my thesis or whatever.

I have the following post its on my wall still to remind me: especially cause like you, it would drive me NUTS when my friends and family would ask how the phd is going and would say, you still doing it???

"burn the boats! when ancient greek armies travelled across the sea to do battle, the first thing they would do after landing was to burn the boats. leaving them stranded. with no way to make it home besides victory, the resolve of the soliders were strengthened. when success and failure are the only options , you have no choice but to follow through"

"everyday is more important, thank how much time you have spent, or how many pages you produce, or the quality "

"one day plus another has an accumulative effect"

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"whereever you are , it is the place to start. the effort you expend today DOES make a difference"

I also kept a log diary, where i would write down how many words i had written, or figures i made, or what not, just a record of what i did, and it would encourage me to do the same the next day. its a nice feeling to feel you did something, cause then when the evening comes, and you wanna relax and watch tv or whatever you like to do, you feel like you "earned it"

also i once read in a dale carnegie book (the man was a genius) that before you go to bed, make a list or just one thing, that you will do tommorow, and organise your notes so that when you come to your desk first thing in the morning, you know EXACTLY what you need to do, that way you wont procrastinate. i actually do this, and the next day when i know exactly what i need to do, i dont procrastinate and i just get on with it.

so your aim today is to choose to do ONE thing connected to your thesis that you will do tommorow. write it on a post it and stick it to your monitor, so tommorow morning, you know exactly what you are doing.

i would also advice you to choose one of your chapters for your thesis, and focus on that. the one you think will be the easiest to write, and start work on that. and just work on it bit by bit everyday, and dont worry about the other chapters for now.

the way i did it, i chose one of my results chapters, and i got my paper that was on the results, and then i copied out stuff from my paper (and flagged it for changing it slightly later), and pulled out all my graphs and data tables, and started working on my figures and tables for the chapter. and i named the document "chapter 3 zero draft" and i wasnt worried about grammer, or anything like that. i just got stuff written down, even if it sounded lame, incorrect, or childish.

after you get a zero draft down, you will feel better, as its "something" down on paper, and you can improve on it.

also the flower technique of writing really helped me out aswell.
check out this website for details.
https://webspace.utexas.edu/cherwitz/www/ie/b_flowers.html

i had it printed and stuck to my wall.

ps sorry for the long post!!! :$

Oh wow, Lara, thanks so much for the information! I need some quiet time to get through all this. One thing seems to jump out which, I think, fits in with me. I developed depression after the first 2 years on the PhD and am only slowly recovering with the help of my GP and others.

I will need to make a conscious decision to sit down and just write. :-)