My boyfriend's doctorate has not gone well for a very long time and after an intermission there has been no improvement mostly due to his depression. He is scared to leave but not interested by his project and I get the impression that he has made slow to small progress. It looks like he will have to make up his mind to leave soon or throw all he has got to salvage it. This does not however seem probable. I have asked others that know more then me and they think that he may end up being "suggested" to leave if he does not do so himself or rapidly produce the goods.

Meanwhile assuming I manage to submit and defend I look set to become Dr X this summer/autumn. His thesis hell has affected our relationship and I want him to be happy so much - but I have no idea to deal with the next few months. I don't know what it will be like and what will happen when I (with hope!) become a Dr and he sadly leaves (or is even worse, pushed) from his doctorate.

Does anybody, at a long shot, have experience of this? I think I remember that a regular poster on here once left her PhD whilst her husband got his...? This is a long term relationship and I want it to carry on so I need to find a way in which I can talk about my PhD and about the expected end of his with as little awkwardness as possible. I don't want it to turn into a box that nobody can mention.

Argh.

======= Date Modified 26 Mar 2010 15:04:13 =======
This is a tricky one! my hubby has yet to finish his phd - after going to a full time job, he just hasn't had the time. I worry that it will never get done. I also worry that if I become a Dr before him, or maybe even if he doesn't at all he will be left feeling emasculated, especially as he started a year before me. My approach has been going through it with him on weekends, proofreading sections so hopefully he will get it done soon.

i don't really know what to say, is there any way you could try and help him out i.e. sit down and see how much he does actually have to do and maybe arrange a plan for him to do it?

ah, if he has no desire then it may be better for him to quit now. My husband does really want to get it done - its just a slight laziness and time issue, and lack of guidance. Maybe just focus on the positives - he's been paid to be a researcher for a few years and got great experience in stuff like presentations etc. Maybe start him thinking about careers he actually wants and would enjoy?

I don't know how I would handle the titles - I would want to show it off but I know it would be hard for my other half for me to do that, and I can see that's how you are too. Mabe only use it at work? and not on bank statements etc? - although that seems so unfair!

Hi Chris,
I'm really sorry to hear what you're going through and I do understand how hard this can be. My fiance, although he stuck with his phd, decided not to stay in academia because he discovered he wasn't suited to that sort of work. I'm finishing mine this year (hopefully!) and I do want to go for academic jobs. This has been hard and at times we struggle with it in our relationship because my fiance feels like he wasn't clever enough or didn't work hard enough. The things that really helped (and continue to help) were:
- Him finding something he really did want to do. I know this is easier said than done, but once he found work that played to his strengths and he was passionate about it gave him a whole new way of seeing things. He had new drive to complete because he wanted to get on to the next thing. He recovered his sense of purpose. Could your boyfriend, before he does anything else, spend some time thinking about his strengths, perhaps with the help of a career counsellor? This could help clarify for him whether his heart is really in the research or not and if not where it is.
- Focusing on the things that you love about one another that are non-work related. As with the above this helps with recovering a sense of being a whole person and not just a research success/failure. It gave us some steady points to hang on to in all the chaos.
- Making an effort to understand where relationship issues and work issues coincide. e.g if you are sitting down with your boyf to talk about his research and he's not saying anything, is it because he genuinely has nothing to say or because he just doesn't like doing this with you! That's not meant to be a criticism. It's just that if you have aspects of your personalities that are dissimiliar those are likely to become hotspots at times of stress like this. Our approach varies from trying to step into the other person's shoes/do it their way, to voicing the relationship issue and just saying 'I'm therefore not the best person to tackle x with you - let's think of someone else you could talk to'.

This brings me on to the final point. You mention your boyf suffers from depression. I would say that my advice might help if by depression you mean feeling generally sad about his work and the way it's going. If you mean depression that is more serious, making him very sad indeed and/or affecting his life more widely my best advise is to get some professional help - in particular some counselling asap. Has he tried the uni counselling service? Many other counselling services offer discounted rates to low earners.

I really hope things get better for you. Let us know how it goes.

======= Date Modified 26 Mar 2010 16:11:45 =======
======= Date Modified 26 Mar 2010 16:10:24 =======
Thank you Florence, much of what you wrote is very sound advice, thanks for your thoughtful post. Unfortunately, yes, it is depression that is being treated with counselling and goes beyond sadness and frustration at work. Oh goodness, we never sit down and have serious probing discussions about our topics (heh) I meant asking in the loosest sense possible like "how is it going?" - which I stopped when I noticed it caused him grief. My topic is more user friendly and "cute" so can occupy casual conversation - but I have sickened of my topic now so don't hold court! ;)

I do like the advice of holding on to what is likeable about them outside of academia - and there is lots here - I just need to get him to realise that too.

Sneaks, I wish he would see some positives - but that is difficult right now.

Goodness, who would do a PhD, huh?!!

Do you do much outside of the PhD or outside of the house - maybe you need to get out, do something - exercise preferrable to fight the depression demons. How about tennis or something you can do together for a bit of light relief?

======= Date Modified 26 Mar 2010 17:01:56 =======
I might be the regular poster you're thinking of. I left my full-time EPSRC-funded PhD in 1996, while my husband continued on - in the same department - to get his.

I can only give you my experiences, but they were tough. I went through a grieving process for my lost PhD, and it hurt enormously. I continued to support my husband in his, but we talked about his work less. Also he didn't go to the formal graduation. And I've never set foot in the building again.

But we got through it. I was immensely proud of him when he finished his PhD. But it was a little bit something we didn't talk so much about. He rarely uses the title "Dr".

bilbo, do you think it would have been different the other way around? For some reason I think men must take it worse - like a pride thing.

Yes, Bilbo - you are the person I was thinking of, thank you! Yes, I had thought that it would be a difficult thing and that I would talk about it less. I rarely talk about it now and was never the kind of person to mention the title anyway. Graduation was also always on the rocks because of family issues anyway. I think I will be content with being happy inside.

I am glad that you and your husband got throught it - and that you are back for another PhD :)

"Oh goodness, we never sit down and have serious probing discussions about our topics (heh) I meant asking in the loosest sense possible like "how is it going?"

Oh dear - I think we tend much more towards the bearing our souls, going through the nitty gritty, thrashing out ideas in-depth stuff :$ !

Have you read 'Sunbathing in the Rain: A cheerful book about depression' by Gwyneth Lewis? I wouldn't recommend it for your boyf (just because it's a woman's account of her depression and he might find it tricky to emphathise - though maybe not) so much as for you. It's a very sympathetic, calming read. It takes depression seriously and at the same time views it as a sign that you need to make changes in your life (i.e. depression can't be reduced to a chemical imbalance - it has social and circumstantial causes too).
I thought of it because it specifically includes a bit on why depressed people are so sensitive to being asked 'how are you?' and 'how's it going?'

Really hope things get better for you and your boyf soon.

Thanks for the book suggestion :). I'm really hoping the counsellor helps him as it is well beyond my capacity to do so now - and sometimes I wonder if I am part of the problem as well. Anyway, the immediate problem is the PhD and I think that will be resolved soon, eitherway.

Chrisrolinski, so I am sorry to hear about this and know that you have been given excellent advice already. My thoughts are- beyond the identity issues (and the grief and depression surrounding them) over the loss of the Phd-what sorts of things do you love about your guy and what does he bring to the relationship.

I ask this because (after breaking up last year with my intellectual ex-academic partner) I realised that what I really liked and was attracted to about quite a lot of men, was their ability to be so practical, and while still being intelligent-being non intellectual in an academic sense. Sometimes just being called on issue or given a reality check when your mind is just racing analytically on so many issues, by a perceptive, intelligent and down to earth person-can be soooo refreshing and supportive.

When you are busy and frantic enduring the post-doctoral shuffle (or waltz)-it could be fantastic to have a partner who is working or able to gain professional or administrative work, who can support you in other ways as you support them.

You need to talk to your partner and not avoid the issue though...remembering that while Phd's are fantastic-they really represent only a small fraction of what is out there in the world or all that is valuable, intelligent and creative. I hope that your partner, once dealing with the grief of not achieving the Phd, finds that there is so much in the world that is still available to him. I also hope that this resolves itself for you (in the sense that you continue with your path and don't feel bad or guilty about being able to achieve it, even if your partner cannot).

Just say what you honestly think to him and see where it leads. If you can't do this then there may be some problems but they might be more than just having or not having a Phd. Lots of luck and enormous bucket loads of best wishes....