Second PhD after failed first one?

D

Just submitted my PhD thesis after four years of doing research at Oxbridge in Molecular Biology. My supervisor told me two months ago to submit the thesis for MPhil instead of PhD because I don't have enough data for PhD (in her opinion). The PhD was nightmare:
-I had personal relations problems with my supervisor (at my first year she constantly told me that I am stupid, have bad memory and that I should get off a PhD and should not deal with science at all - I started to avoid her).
-The project I was doing had no clear question,often based on the artefacts generated by the previous student (so despite being at high-profile institution, our lab has a very poor publication record).
- got very few training in the model organism I was studying.

But. I really love science and want to stay in it. I had a record of success in science: I got funding both for first and second degrees, several awards. In terms of research I got a 5-month internship before starting PhD and initiated the project that can be potentially a Nature paper (now in the first round of revision in Nature with positive reviews, I am a second author out of five).

In summary:
-Potentially failed PhD at high-standard institution with very average references from a PhD supervisor (something like "smart, able to generate new ideas, good at molecular biology techniques, but not attentive to details and not always setting up the experiments properly, not able to work independently and need retraining").
-No experimental skills that are in high demand.
-A glowing reference from the second referee (internship supervisor, from the work that has been done 4 years ago).
-No publications so far.

I consider applying for a second PhD as I became interested in Neurobiology during my PhD. I am 27.

What is the best way to describe my experience during PhD (or MPhil, if I get no PhD)?
What is the best strategy to apply? Or should I get an unrelated to research job instead?

C

Personally I'd wait and see how your Viva goes, perhaps your supervisor is just being over-critical and you could get your PhD, even if it was with major corrections or resubmission. Then you can assess your situation and see where you want to go after that.

D

at my first year she constantly told me that I am stupid


That's really bad. Not acceptable.

I agree with Caro, wait to see what happens in the Viva.

Even if you are not awarded a PhD, you may still be able to get a job as a research assistant (especially with a Nature publication). I strongly believe that a PhD by publication is a better option for both the scientific community (your output is out there instead of a shelf in the library), and also for the researcher (you are a member of staff rather than a low paid dog's body).

Avatar for Mackem_Beefy

Being called stupid when you've barely got going is unacceptable and is possible cause for complaint once you've finished. Clearly the poor reference means you have nothing to lose by raising a complaint. The problem from what you say seems to be with her given her group's poor publication record.

It may be the old addage of the Uni. closing ranks to protect reputation kicks in if you complain, however, it would still places doubts about her privately amongst other members of staff and make things interesting when her tenure comes up for review in a few years.

However, the viva is still to come and I'd await the outcome before you take any further action. You've made up your own mind that you've failed even before you've faced the examiners. I also fail to see what advantage there is just submitting for MPhil rather than PhD as that would be an admission of failure on your part with less scope for manoevre. Go for PhD I would say - all the examiners can do is downgrade you.

The MPhil option is not used that often for a PhD viva and on balance, if there are problems then they'll opt for resubmission or revise and resubmit. The thesis has to be really flawed for a fail or lacking in originality for an MPhil award.

As others have said, you can still be a research assistant without a PhD (the Nature publication will help) and you could use this to head for a PhD via published works. Applying for a second PhD may be problematic if you've already failed (though less so with an MPhil), in the eyes of potential supervisors and funding bodies if funding for a project is not already in place. That said, you'll already know what a PhD entails and you'll be able to sell this knowhow in an application for a second PhD. You've been there and you'll have learn't from any mistakes, making failure in the future much less likely.

Ian

T

Hello, Darida1. I know this reply is 2 years late, but how did your viva go in the end?

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