UK Tier 4 Visa Refusal on Para 245ZV (k)

05-Apr-15, 13:41
edited about 50 seconds later
by Gemini
Avatar for Gemini
posted about 4 years ago
Hi Guys,

I was refused entry clearance to UK on aforesaid para as not being genuine student. I had paid full fees and showed maintenance funds and got 10 points. The ECO called me for second interview but did not asked me to get any docs just had mentioned in the email that "if you think any further docs are required to submit you can". So I did not carry any further docs.
At the time of interview he asked me how you got your funds managed I said I am lone child and my father works part time and gets 40k p.m. and my parents savings.
He asked me did you get any docs to show your fathers income I said no.
I had previously been to UK for 4.5 years on work visa and I have already done LLM from India and now wanted to do MBA from UK.
The ECO asked me are you presently working in India since you came back from UK. I said no I am not able to get job in India as UK experience is not counted in India and I want a MBA degree from UK which will boost my career further. As Indian job market has improvised and MBA with LLM I can get job in India. ECO asked me do you have any reference that after you come back to India you will get job I said I have references but I need to search jobs.

I came to India in March 2014 and been unemployed till Feb 2015. In the refusal ECO said I made contradictory statement in interview to my previous interview as I have worked in UK it will boost my CV further. He is not satisfied I am genuine student. He said that you being unemployed and have no employment to return to and is not satisfied that my proposed expenditure is commensurate with my family or economic circumstances.

Guys I want to know can i go for fresh application in Sept 2015 intake with evidences to all the aforesaid reasons or again the same would be refused. Please help
05-Apr-15, 19:06
edited about 7 seconds later
Avatar for TheEngineer
posted about 4 years ago
In such situations, you have to make sure you present all possible documents that can help argue your case. This government is under intense pressure to reduce the net migration and they're doing everything possible to deny those who don't furnish them with necessary documentation/evidence. The major source of scepticism in your case is no doubt the work visa that you had. Arising from your previous work visa two points of contention can be deduced if I put myself in the shoes of the ECO.

(1) The ECO is probably wondering why you never did an MBA during your 4.5 years in UK especially through part-time/evening.
(2) The fact that you already possess an LLM which is essentially at same level as an MBA which you intend to pursue can be misconstrued as not being a genuine reason. I am pretty certain your application would have succeeded had you applied to pursue a higher degree than what you already have e.g PhD

Try making new application and avail them with whatever evidence you can produce e.g your dad/mum's evidence of source of income

The ECO guys are under enormous pressure from Theresa May to reduce Non-EU numbers entering the UK.Visa applications especially from self-sponsored non-EU students are under heavy scrutiny these days leading to a reduction in Indian students coming to UK, with most of them opting for other destinations like USA, Canada, Australia etc. This clamp down has not just affected students, but all visa categories including academics. There are reports where some academics have not been granted leave to remain in the UK and have ended up finding jobs in other countries, the latest high profile case being that of Miwa Hirono, the Nottingham University academic.

All the best
06-Apr-15, 10:50
edited about 22 seconds later
by Gemini
Avatar for Gemini
posted about 4 years ago
Thanks a lot The Engineer for your detailed guidance.

Should I then go for Sept intake for MBA or can I now go for PhD for Sept intake. BUt if I now file for PhD then they would question why PhD now and not MBA, thats my worry. I even tried for PhD in past was unlucky to get selected.
I am just thinking hard if I get all docs submitted like income of my father, my employment proof and all for MBA course for Sept would it help me to get visa. I know the current govt policies are very much on immigration and especially students policies. I am not aware whether the scenario would change after the 2015 elections. As even Scotland is pressing hard for PSW to be introduced back for their own part for encouraging students more to UK and many students have been opting other countries bcoz of this strict policies. I am very much confused as I do not want one more refusal which would again be baseless with nothing much to plead as its just a waste of time and money.
Please guide guys. Thanks a lot.
06-Apr-15, 11:58
edited about 17 seconds later
Avatar for TheEngineer
posted about 4 years ago
Making a fresh application to pursue a PhD at this time will definitely not work. It may be perceived that you're desperate to gain entry at whatever cost. Try by all means to present new evidence of your dad's income, proof of your previous/current employment and any other relevant document
06-Apr-15, 15:30
edited about 19 seconds later
by Gemini
Avatar for Gemini
posted about 4 years ago
Thanks a lot for your prompt advice. I will definitely go with fresh evidences for Sept intake. I am just worried again they should not doubt me on genuine student issue. One more issue was that when I was in UK I had filed FLR (O) which was refused and I had filed appeal which I withdrew and came back voluntarily to India. I have not overstayed in the UK so I got my compliance properly done and got CAS.
But the ECO did not question me on my previous UK immigration history in myy interview but was only asking me on my funds how I managed them. I think mostly bcoz I was unemployed when I returned from UK for almost a year.
Many people are saying me that I should go to New Zealand instead of UK again as UK policies are very much strict. I seriously want to do my MBA but cannot succeed due to strict rules.
06-Apr-15, 17:43
edited a moment later
Avatar for TheEngineer
posted about 4 years ago
On your previous FLR(O) application, the guys have all the information in their system about you and everyone who's had a UK visa before. Whether that might have played a part in arriving at the decision, I am not sure. Regarding studying in New Zealand, I think you should keep all your options open, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
07-Apr-15, 10:00
by satchi
Avatar for satchi
posted about 4 years ago
hi gemini sorry to hear about your visa experience. Actually you need to show SOLID evidence of funding, as they are concerned that you may be coming to work instead of study. If you make a fresh application, they will still ask you "have you ever applied for a visa before" and it will come out in the open again. So evidence of funding is very important. If you still want to do an MBA in the UK, by all means go through the visa application again, but this time have all the documents ready, unfortunately it all comes down to money. The UK is trying to keep immigrants away because they think non-UK migrants want to work (which is partly true and they are prepared to work more for less pay), unfortunately the UK cannot solve their own EU migration issues.

I'll give you a real life example, my friend lost his job as a web-programmer, because his boss decided to hire African programmers at a lower cost. Of course the African programmers were good and highly-skilled no doubt about that, and hiring them saved money for the company but now my friend is out of work.

Before you do anything, whether it is the UK or New Zealand, make sure you have all the documents ready for money.

Best of luck
love satchi
08-Apr-15, 06:22
by Gemini
Avatar for Gemini
posted about 4 years ago
Thanks TheEngineer for your reply. Yes, I need to keep all options open about UK or New Zealand so I am getting offer letters for both. I need also to wait for election results as that is also a reason for rise in refusals of visas for UK.

Thanks Satchi for your reply. Yes, I need to show a very SOLID evidence of funding as UK immigration officers just want to refuse at any cost. I am aware that UK is very much against non EU migrants but they are not doing anything about EU migrants. Actually when I was in UK I came across my EU migrants who have taken jobs away from Britishers for less wages and on that issue they dont resolve with them but they cap non EU which is very much disheartening. And elections on face has been one more reason for visa refusals.

I am therefore keeping both options open whether UK or New Zealand, and yes as you said I will definitely make sure I have all the documents ready for money to show them or else I will again be in big trouble.

Thanks a ton
08-Apr-15, 08:29
Avatar for silverlining
posted about 4 years ago
HI Gemini!

I am really sorry that you are going through hard time.

Others have already provided helpful tips But from the situation you stated I encountered a few glitches,

1. 'I said no I am not able to get job in India as UK experience is not counted in India and I want a MBA degree from UK which will boost my career further.' - It may implies that if UK experience is not counted that means UK degree may not be accepted in India especially MBAs. I came across a few newspaper articles sometimes back arguing Indian companies are accepting MBAs from UK which takes a year while Indian MBA is of 2 years and include more rigorous coursework. However I do not know what is the contemporary situation.

2. Visa officer may think If UK degree is not counted that means you do not have intention to leave UK after you graduate - Which is an ALERT sign and hence you need to gather all those documents that prove that you will be leaving country after finishing your studies.

3. Further your unemployment for a year in India that too after working in the UK for 4 years also played a part here. In India the culture is different that accepts children to stay with parents. But West requires individual ownership of wealth and income once you are not minor.

In my opinion you need to create your case strongly by stating you will go back and you have solid ties attached to your home country be it a new job waiting, your property, per se. But it would really help if you could show the proof of your father's income. Basically that was what expected when a mail stated to submit required documents. Further you can also take help of reliable agent as there are many agencies that provide advice to students for studying further in the UK. However be careful whom you chose.

Hope it helps. Go ahead and create a stronger case. Fingers crossed for you :)
08-Apr-15, 10:03
by Gemini
Avatar for Gemini
posted about 4 years ago
Thanks silverlining for helpful tips really grateful.

Yes, there are few discrepancies from my end with regard to my application which led ECO more doubt.

Yes I said not able to get job in India on UK experience but I said not able to get senior level job and I can get junior level job bu as my work experience is of 10 years, I do not want to sacrifice for junior level job. The ECO cut short the sentence and just took "cannot find job" which was very not fair.
In India MBA is of 2 years and in UK it is of 1 year and I told the same to ECO that I will save one year of study.
Yes my unemployment for one year made ECO doubt on me being genuine student but my agent did not provide me correct guidance for visa filing nor he said to me to carry any further docs at the time of second interview nor to fill in employment gap.

I have to put up a strong case if I want to go ahead with Sept intake and also I will see election results and policies after that, if any change in it then I can go for UK or else I would go for New Zealand.
There are many student visa agents in UK but sad to say they are not good in visa applications but only to get admissions. I have taken so many opinions from agent but they say go to New Zealand and not UK as you stayed there for more than 4 years to work and they feel you are potential immigrant. Lets see I am keeping my fingers crossed and keeping all options open.

Thanks again.
01-Oct-18, 14:25
by Mercede
Avatar for Mercede
posted about 8 months ago

I have been offered a fully funded PhD position as well as stipend by UCL. I filled my Tier 4 application with all the correct information regarding my sponsorship however UCL did not provide me any proof regarding the funding nor UKVI requested any information as the information regarding the funding was supposed to be mentioned on my CAS. BUT today I received a letter stating that my application was refused because I did not meet the requirements of paragraph 245ZV of the Immigration Rules. Can you please help me?


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