Hi Guys,

This is an odd one but my supervisors are awful at giving feedback. Literally every time I meet them and tell them what I am doing or show them results, I get a response no more than "that sounds good" or "looks good". Send them a draft and I get some comments about the structure or typos, never any comments about the data or arguments. To be honest they I don't think they have ever given me any negative or constructive feedback about my work. I know it can do better but it is frustrating to try and improve when you have no one giving critical advice.

Is this me just being needy or is it a genuine gripe? As I don't even know if you can tell someone "please give better feedback".

It's not needy that you want to improve at what you do. I have had a similar situation throughout my PhD. It could be one of the following:
- Poor supervisors who are not able to offer you critical feedback on your work, although there are areas where it could be improved
- Poor supervisors who have the ability to give you critical feedback, but who aren't engaging in your work and providing it
- Your work is very good and there is very little that your supervisors can comment on for it to be improved

It could be a mixture of all three. If you realise that it is the first or second one, it might be worth changing supervisors... after all, you aren't going to develop from having your typos pointed out. One good thing you can do is get submitting your work to journals asap - sent it to high up ones in your field and get the reviewers' feedback. I had a rejection from a great journal, and the comments from one of the reviewers were like gold-dust to me. They actually caused me to think about my work at a higher level, which is what I believe good feedback should do. And normally, even if your work is to a very high standard, there is some scope for constructive feedback - even if it is perhaps comments on how you can expand your thinking in a future study. But the person supervising you has to have the ability to think at a different level too, and be willing to invest and develop you in that way.

I hope this helps. Don't settle for less even though it's great that your work is already good!

Thankyou for the reassurance, Tudor. It is nice to have a place were you can post things without judgement while getting useful help.

I think my supervisors are a mixture of the first two points with the field not being natural to them plus assuming that I know what I am doing. I kinda surprised them when I started my PhD with a clear plan of what I wanted to do. So since day one I have been mostly independent and they just left me to my own thing, though they helped me a lot with methodologies, lab space/equipment and paperwork. This is the first time I really needed significant guidance/advice and I need to be a bit more clear on that. I do know that I am bad a bottling feelings and being too polite when asking for things. Also, I don't want to change supervisors because they are v.good in other regards.

I would love to submit a paper but I have issues with my primary supervisor wanting to produce a perfect paper before submitting. As my project is more of proving a concept that can be very easily replicated, so there is a high chance of being gazumped if I try to publish preliminary results (also a v.good chance of getting into a top-tier journal). So I feel limited on publishing. It also doesn't help that their opinion is to do lots of work then only publish the best bits without her actually knowing all that needs done. She literally has the approach "I feel we need more data" but doesn't know what of!!!! Arghhh!!!!!

So yeah, I need to somehow to sit my supervisors down and clearly say "I need help with this". Hopefully it might work.

Hi Rewt

Your response sort of makes me want to change my initial reply! As usual I was being shaped by my own experiences and seeing things with my black and white glasses on. Yes, it does sound like a situation where just an open conversation is needed. It sounds like they are reasonable people and so it should go well. They probably just aren't aware that you feel you could do with a bit more input / feedback. I hope it goes well when you talk to them about it.

Ps. The wanting more data thing sounds annoying! I've heard of that before though, and I am not sure what actually drives it! I guess some of it is the more data you can get (perhaps) the more scope you have to address different things and potentially publish (and even when you've left the data can be used by others). So I kind of see why some sups are always pushing for more. At the same time, you probably know when you need to stop collecting if you are to be able to write up on time!

Hopefully other people will have some advice for you too. It sounds like you're sorted. Keep us posted!

Hi!

Not sure if you will find this useful but can you seek out any other academics who would be willing to look at a chapter or piece of work here or there? I got great critical feedback from a conference that I attended (especially in the discussions afterwards) and from someone that I asked to look at one specific chapter for me. This is not to say that you cannot ask for more critical or constructive feedback from your supervisors too!

Good luck!

Yes, that's a great idea! I did the same thing when I got to know someone (said hi and introduced myself lol) at a conference. We then stayed in touch by email and I asked her for feedback on a paper that had been rejected.

rewt, you don't need to be impolite to ask for things directly.
If your supervisors don't like to rock the boat you need to find a way of making your questions as specific as possible.
For example, if you ask them how you are doing you give them the chance to say "oh fine". If you ask them what 3 bits of advice they could give you to improve you drastically cut their chances of fobbing you off.
As far as the endless data collection is concerned I would ask them directly what data is missing, how this new data would fill that hole and whether there were any other specific concerns they had before publishing. The point here is to get them to acknowledge that publishing is definitely going to happen sometime this year and then getting them to agree a set of actions which, once complete, remove their final barriers to getting your draft sent in to publishers.

All of these actions on your part give an air of assertiveness on your part. It clearly says that you are in control of the process whilst seeking their input as a courtesy. It gains their respect and is more likely to boost their confidence in you that you actually have an idea what you are talking about. They maybe just don't get that confidence from you just yet but it's easily fixed if that is the case.

Thanks for the support. The more I think about it I need to be a bit more assertive as I am too polite. I think it the polite way to put is that my supervisors are very "European" and I am very "English" in how we approach conversations. So I need to be a bit more clear about my need for feedback.

The publishing problem is a whole different kettle of fish and I sort of agree with them at the minute. So you probably see another thread in a few months about that :wink:

I know exactly what you mean here! I spent time in Germany as a teenager, which totally changed my communication style. I think I would have struggled with being direct about things if not for that (I came back and my family were all like "what's happened to her?"). I used to think direct was rude before that experience. Then I came to appreciate it as just being so much straightforward. Important to strike a balance though - some people do think direct is rude (even if it clearly isn't - they just can't handle it / don't like it - and I can understand that as a Brit who used to feel the same way!)

Good luck navigating feedback!

I think I can guess they are "very south European" where talking direct is not common and the general attitude is not to criticise work unless things are really bad.
I agree with the opinions above about asking more question which requires specific answers and seeking other academics feedback.

That's funny - I was thinking the opposite - that they were Northern / Eastern European and needed rewt to ask more directly instead of sort of hinting (the English way). Rewt? :-D

Between them they are northern and southern European (non-UK supervisory team)

And I think they are very direct/literal in what the say and how they say it. Though as I am not specifically asking for their criticism or advice they don't give any, and assume everything is okay. It appears that it is mostly the UK that thinks it is too polite to speak freely and ask for help, but they have no issues with that.

So sorta both right.

Haha! Good mixture anyway! And yes, I think it is mostly the UK that is like that too. I don't know any other countries quite like it, although I have heard that the culture / communication style in Korea and China is even more indirect and there is even more etiquette and indirect politeness rules to try and follow in order to get anywhere.