Ok BHC! I get your point about academia being competitive, but I don't think comparing students to eachother would make them any better able to compete. It would demand an unrealistic simplification of their research and skills anyway, which would be a rubish way of giving feedback. It's just not productive and strikes me as lazy and careless.

BHC - are you replying to me or Lim?, because as far as I can make out, Lim seems to be more in line with your way of thinking about this than mine. Also, I haven't discussed my relationship with my supervisor so I don't understand why you would be asing me about that.

I am generally annoyed about the slap dash attitude universities have about PhD supervisor training - I too have had a supervisor whose behaviour reached way beyond that described by Lim. But I still think wheeling people (these are not things, they are people) out as examples when they are not there as bad form, unprofessional and very unnecessary. I'm not saying it would dent any body's ego, but I do think it reiterates the culture assessing the merits of students' work (behind their backs - something which was rife in my department)with other students, and there are many reasons why that is just plain wrong. There has to be some sort of boundary between student and supervisor, and supervisors do need to acknowledge some responsibility, as professionals, for what they are paid to do. I am not saying they are all lke that, but I do thnk it is more than ok to talk about the negatives of sup student relationships, especially on this forum.

And by the way, I am not someone with a fragile sensitive disposition in these situations - I just care about professionalism. If I were as you described, I'd be upset by your comments, which are verging on personal and not doing you any favours.

I see what Lim described as the thin end of a very nasty, destructive wedge which, as you know, is prettty rife in HE.

BHC - If the student being held up as a shining light had been present, and had been a student of the sup in question your words may have pursuaded me a little. But as it stands, this situation still seems unprofessional in the way it seems only academics find acceptable.

Praise is absolutely appropriate for hard graft - praise from your supervisory team, which is given when you are in ear shot. Inappropriate commentary of work causes so many problems at this level - supervisors comment about students to other students, both good and bad. It seems to me that training in supervision is desperately needed in many cases. Teachers and managers are trained and PhD supervisors need to learn more about actual motivation and appropriate methods of feedback including praise and negative comments.

hhhmmmm, I can see that these kind of comments and situations might be supposed to be motivational, but they go against everything I've learnt to be good practice as a manager and as a teacher. To discuss the progress of a student (in their absence)in front of a group of students is OOO for a start. Plus unfavourable comparissons designed to instigate competition invariably set people up against eachother and create a negative environment. Individual situations are just that - individual - and not directly comparible anyway. It seems to me to be a pretty neanderthal way of motivating people. Also, it works for ALan Sugar because the aim of the Apprentice is good TV, not high level education. I'm sure some academics think he is a role model (or would it be Simon Cowel??) I'm suprised this technique works on some, I have to work very, very hard for it not to turn me right off. I find this a really interesting thread because it's something I've had to deal with, and I'm sure I will again through my career in academia. It's just something we all have to face. God help me if I ever get infiltrated!

Also, this approach to supervision seems to go against common sense - I'd be inclined to think, well, I notice it isn't one of your own demoralised charges who is the shining light of this department. And then knuckle down and proove the oik totally, and absolutley, WRONG. I think this has to be the only way of preserving ones own interests, and avoid imploding. I will NEVER be so unprofessional with my students.

Yeah, unfortunately, this seems to be the way alot of sups talk to their students. Does not work at all on me, I tend to loose respect and start doubting anything that comes out of their mouths. Just seems so unprofessional and the antithesis of anything I learnt in teacher training. I, like Lim, will have to find a way of brushing this sort of thing off.

AAAhhhhh Lim, that's so sweet.

that's ok, BIG cyber HUGS;-)

Hey! I would give you a choccie, but this is cyber space. It's all nearly over now - just half an hour to go.

no, are you though?

I had chicken thighs and potato dauphenois for dinner and am half way through the box of chocolates I bought myself. I'm also watching 'Moonstruck' with nicolas cage on the telly. My favourite film for romance ... ever.

Yes, thank you Away!!!, for taking the time to do this. Very much.

Hi Bug,

I was in this position a while ago - where a call for papers specified no word limit. A colleague advised me that proposals should be kept to less than 500 words - so I submitted about 400, and my paper was accepted. It was a very high profile conference and they can't have been too desperate, so I think this was good advice!

They will be reading many, many proposals so I reckon short and to the point is the best approach, and 350 words fits that bill.

Hope these words help. 8-)

Well, I take back everything I said on the earlier post - Now I'm making real progress with the PhD, getting into a rythm of working, and have turned a miraculous corner with my writing,,,,,,,, I AM TURNING INTO WURZEL GUMMIDGE. Is there a see saw effect going on??? If only the people at the uni where I teach could see me now... a very different prospect.

As for hair dye, I find toners and shaders great for dealing with grey strands. There is no age guidance on the sachet, so I'm presuming anyone can go for it. :-x

sorry, I meant Kate21 and not Katie21.