This isn't about 'vision of the world'. This is about two people who are about to destroy their professional reputation and credibility as well as the standing of their academic institution. You put these two in front of a university ethics and academic standards committee and the couple will get blasted for their actions (if they had gone beyond their professional supervisor/student relationship). Would you say the ethics and academic standards committee are merely harping on about their 'vision of the world' too? I think not. There are very clear PROFESSIONAL standards with very clear lines. These two wouldn't be treated with kid gloves by any university committee.

The only people who would give two hoots about their PERSONAL standards are their respective partners/families who have absolutely no idea this is going on.

Either way, I am known amongst my friends and colleagues for being upfront and brutally honest at times depending on the circumstances. And yes I would respond the same way in person although to be honest my delivery doesn't sound as harsh as it looks online. I'm seeing lamp's predicament with a sense of humour more than it's coming through on the computer screen and that's probably why I understand where Matt's response is coming from. But anyway when it comes down to it, if they want to dig their own graves, who am I to stand in their way.

Ok, first of all what the hell should the standing of the institution have to do with someone's personal life? In non-academic workplaces although there are occassionally some limitations, it is common for more senior members of staff to date more junior members. In my uni PhD candidates are treated as junior staff not students, we socialise with staff, not undergrads.
I understand why there are concerns regarding professionalism, but first and foremost this is a personal issue to be dealt with - the relationship of two people who are already in relationship. Once there is 'perspective' (not vision of the world) on the real possibilities of that relationship, then a decision can be made upon professional grounds.

C'mon now, junior staff? They are PhD students and that is how the media and the rest of the community sees it. To the rest of the world, it's a scandal and universities don't like scandals. If you are not convinced, go speak to any one of the professors on the appropriate committee. It is more so a scandal if you consider the possibility that one or both of them may be married, worse still with kids.

And by the way, they don't share a 'personal life' yet. They have a professional relationship at present, and at least one of them cannot keep their teenage hormonal emotions under control. She is "in love" with someone whom she doesn't even know if there are mutual feelings of "love". As I was saying, sounds very high school to me.

Clearly a couple of thousand years of Christianity didn't teach me anything. RogueAcademic sits at the right of God the Father and 'knowns' how Lamp feels and is ready to label her feelings as 'teenage hormonal emotions'. Thanks for this Rogue. Next time I want to know how I feel about something I will e-mail to you. This said, I am out of this discussion.

The media and the rest of the community? Why on earth should Lamp (or any other person) be held to the judgement of people who do not know her? As Corinne rightly identified your perceptions of right and wrong are so clearly defined that the seem to have become completely disengaged with human emotion. I would love to see you at one of my ethics lectures. (We are treated as junior staff as we PhD students all lecture and teach - just at a more junior level, as someone who did not have a PhD would do if they were in a lecturers post.)
I am not saying that Lamp's feelings are well-developed or love (see my first post where I asked if this was truly genuine). However, her priority should be to her emotional state - to her current relationship (again, as I already stated), and an assessment of that. Once she is more aware of her feelings, only then can she make an informed decision - only in my opinion, of course.

"Why on earth should Lamp (or any other person) be held to the judgement of people who do not know her?"

I'm pretty sure it is specifically outlined in your university's documentation for ethical conduct. That's why. I hardly think 'junior staff' in this context would be construed as non-contentious.

Either way, the superficiality her declarations of love at this time only suggests emotional immaturity.

Well I hope he's a young Brad Pitt, as this is potentially a career killer for Lamp. Be a shame if she ruined her life (what it could come down to) for an older, beardy type. Putting Lamp aside, what kind of muppet is he playing along with all this (as seems to be the case).

Wow Rogue you're a die-hard romantic aren't you? What gives you the right to dismiss someone's feelings as immature? I'm not saying she should act on her feelings but I think she should have the right to use any words she wants to describe the way she feels (inc. 'love'). What's it to you?

It is really funny and reading this discussion gave me the impression that some of us never ever fell in love and certainly won't before checking the others persons background Sometime these things happen and I was in love with a teacher from my school and after my graduation we were together for quite some years and I don't think that had anything to do with High School etc. Lamp might be 29, 30... for all we know and would you then still call it "High School"?

Dear Lamp,
I understand what a horrible situation you must be in. Is there a possibility to have someone else attending the meetings as well? Second supervisor, somebody else working in the field? Or move the meetings from the office to a more public area: staff room, coffee place? Reducing meetings will be quite good as well. Perhaps you can limit yourself with the emails, it will be hard BUT if you do not see eachother for a while and have less contact the feeling will either grow stronger or weaker.

In case they grow stronger and he is trying to get in contact with you it might be worse asking him whether he thinks there is another supervisor out there who could take over. In case he only asks whether you think he does not know his subject you have an idea about his feelings and can come up with - more experience in the area xy would be good as you thought about yz after your thesis. In casehe agrees you know where you stand and you have a chance for this relationship.
Or go on holiday for four weeks and travel around the world - it will change things inside you!

"RogueAcademic sits at the right of God the Father and 'knowns' how Lamp feels and is ready to label her feelings as 'teenage hormonal emotions'."

Wow.. are you seriously bringing religion into this? By the way Corinne, if by "right of God the Father" you mean "university ethical standards committee", you'd be right. And yes the committee has the right to tell it to their faces that what she's thinking of doing is a no-no right before we dispense harsh disciplinary measures. That is, if we don't decide to let them go first.


"Lamp might be 29, 30... for all we know and would you then still call it "High School"?"

oz - that is my point exactly.

I was in exactly the same situation. It ruined my life & very nearly my PhD for two years. Back out now and get a different supervisor, however painful it is. It will be a whole lot more painful in the long run, believe me. But hindsight is a wonderous thing ... !

I find this whole thread ridiculous. Any intelligent advice could be summarised in one single sentence: "Lamp, you are in trouble - so get out of this situation"

All this bla bla bla about feelings, and similar situations and anything does not change the fact that the original poster is in deep trouble if she does not do something about it. So instead of asking for pads on your shoulder for being so brave and everything, I think you should ask yourself what you want more: a relationship with no future or a PhD