======= Date Modified 30 Jun 2010 19:24:59 =======
@stressed. Well, the argument was regarding the research incentives...not about the jobs :-x Certainly, I am not the twister. Jep told you it's like 60hrs per every student. Hence, simple calculation 5x(£35x60)=10.5K
If still in doubt, check the original poster's title!

@Goodboy
But they don't get that money as extra - it is part of their pay 60 hours a year (out of the 1470 or whatever) so about 4% which if they are on £40k equates to about £160 per student - not a lot (compared to the fees).  But as I was an accountant in my previous life I do know that there are lots of other costs (eg library facilities, labs where applicable) and overheads (computers, office space, support functions etc) but it aint a lot.

You can't use the £35 sessional lecturer per hour pay for full time staff as that takes into account holiday, sick pay, prep time (they are all rolled into the rate as you only get paid for the delivery hours not the prep or marking).  Most people who do hourly paid work reckon they are on around £10 an hour. When I started out as an hourly paid I travelled 100 mile round trip to teach 2 hours twice a week so earned £130 for what took me (with travelling, preparation, seeing students etc) about 15 hours and cost me £30 a week in fuel - I saw it as work experience (which did result in my getting a permanent job).

God knows where Goodboy is but it isn't in the UK that's for sure. Supervising PhD students is part of the basic lecturer job and every grade above it. You are allocated a low amount of hours for the task on the workload model (the 60 hours sounds about right) which does not in the slightest reflect what PhD students expect from you. It is often a thankless task as you are blamed for students failing to complete in four years regardless of the problems the students have in their personal lives. You do not get any extra pay and outside the sciences where you tell a PhD student what they do and thus can get publications / research support, you gain no material benefits whatsoever. Most supervisors try their best to help their students as best they can, but tbh it's more because they believe in furthering the future of their subject than because they are encouraged to by their employer. My Russell Group postdoc employer loses money on home/EU PhD students and consequently is encouraging academics only to take people who really are outstanding onto the PhD programme. And no, getting a PhD studentship is not viewed as a major research income achievement - more like a 'so why didn't you get a proper grant that employs postdocs' reaction....

======= Date Modified 30 Jun 2010 21:27:10 =======
@Jep Do you mean 4% of 40k which is 1600. My university pays between 5-10k on top of normal salaries.
Maybe the lecturer's profiles are more stringent these days compared to a few years back where performing research duties were not on the agenda. But again, I know 2/3 young lecturers who still waiting for the green signal to supervise postgrads. it is clearly written on the staff website that once they do that their salary will boost up by the above amount..

I have checked forum job website and basic lecturer's jobs do not specify research duties...other than attending workshops on research methods..

@bewildered Clearly teaching and doing research(supervising) are two different jobs. That's why we have research assistants. If research duties are demanded then the pay incentive is already included in the pay.
There is no such thing as a free ride..

Final thought, If there are no bonuses than why supervise?

Well then they are very lucky if they get a pay rise for supervising PhDs - most don't (although it is a factor which can contribute to moving up the grades so indirectly it might help.

Most people I know do it for (either or both of) the esteem and the pleasure from nurturing new talent

This is just rubbish. You cannot be at a normal UK university (maybe a private uni like Buckingham?). Bonuses do not exist in the UK system. Academic staff are paid on a national pay scale. Supervising PhD students is an expected part of the job. You do it because that's what you are employed to do. And no, teaching and research are not two different jobs. The contract I have just signed for a lectureship states that I am expected to spend a third of my time each on teaching, research and administration duties. I will also be expected to assist in supervising PhD students initially as part of a team of more experienced supervisors. And frankly if I did not already have a full REF submission then I wouldn't have got a lectureship after my postdoc at all, so it's ridiculous to say that lecturers don't do research.

Well maybe we're in different fields and/or different countries, but at our uni and in my subject lecturing and research go hand in hand. All lecturers spend a significant amount of their time doing research- research is their main duty since most lecturers only teach in their speciality (so just a couple of modules per semester, not even that for some). For most, teaching is just something that they have to do that goes alongside the research. Certainly there are teaching assistants and teaching associates who spend a greater proportion of their time teaching, but they are still involved in research as well. So really, I don't see teaching and research as two separate jobs, at least not where I am. The department I am in is one of the top research departments for my subject, so perhaps for that reason a lot of emphasis is placed on the research, but as far as I can tell the situation is the same at other universities as well. And certainly nobody gets 5-10K for supervising a PhD student here (that would mean an extra 30-60K per year for my sup!!)- the benefits, as mentioned below, are not necessarily financial- there are many other benefits of supervising PhDs. Anyway, that's how things are in my subject at my uni. Best, KB

======= Date Modified 30 Jun 2010 21:53:49 =======
Keenbean, It's 5-10k research incentive not per student. @bewildered you will def get a pay rise when you will in a position to independently supervise PhD students..no need to use foul language. I did not mean to take this simple discussion to a full time argument. Good luck with your lectureship. There is a difference in active/passive research.

One more thing, I am in one of the top 5 UK universities not like the ones you are familiar with where you are loaded like mules..

It all depends on the university - you wil NOT "definitely get a pay rise" at most of the universities I am familiar with

Well even if it's a 5-10K research incentive it doesn't happen where I am! Or where anyone else is by the sounds of it! I am a little confused about your final statement...could you possibly explain it a little? Because it sounds rather like an insult to some people on the forum, but perhaps I have misunderstood. KB

I even have that document in front to support what I had been saying all day. Someone who do not even have basic manners and used rubbish with quotations do not deserve a lecturer's post in the first place. Plz Go and check your staff websites or contact the payroll section..

Goodboy- you haven't answered my question, and your last post does not actually make sense- but quite aside from that I find you rather rude and insulting towards many forum members, and having been dragged into a most unpleasant argument with you once before where you were extremely abusive towards me, I do not intend repeat the experience. I really don't understand what you are doing on this forum- all you seem to want to do is provoke people and cause unpleasantness. I, for one, don't need that this week, or any week for that matter. I doubt anyone else does either. Goodnight. KB

have we met before? i do not even know you...

Goodboy, why are you always so confrontational and offensive to people? I really don't understand you in the slightest, you are being extremely rude to both Keenbean and to Bewildered for no reason whatsoever. (down)

It is quite obvious that your uni runs things rather differently than the rest of us - ALL academics employed in universities have to produce research, its what the unis are rated on in the current system. Its what they do! My supervisor has several and on a particularly big project he may employ a research assistant but most of his work has been his own, individual research. Where do you think journal articles come from - research - active research that they carry out alongside their few hours a week teaching time.

There really is little point debating anything with you, you resort to insults every time and that is very disappointing, this forum is a lovely place to be with fantastic, supportive, friendly people. Please try to join in in the manner that everyone else does and stop with the insults.

Remember Goodboy, it was you who uttered the following utterly profound admonition concerning the state of comments on this forum a short while ago: ' I am here in this forum only to learn from positive experiences of others. It seems we are running out of wisdom or we are avoiding to share this with everyone else'. It would appear that by attacking other forum members we really are.