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I don't want to divorce! But would I have to?
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Quote From rewt:


Being the first Ph.D. student does mean your supervisor will make mistakes but you can also get far more skills and experience than being the second or third student. I am both my supervisor's first Ph.D. student but also the first student in a new research group. I have had to learn/develop several new techniques which I have already got 2 long external lab visits from. Because there is no real research group I am somehow collaborating with researchers from other countries instead. I don't have all the right lab equipment though I have learned so much amount the understanding methodologies to compensate.

An inexperienced but well-motivated supervisor isn't bad if you take is an opportunity to step up and don't expect to be spoon-fed everything. You just have to work harder for better results.



Hi, rewt,

I completely agree with you that an inexperienced supervisor will allow the PhD student to gain far more experiences setting up assays & lab, optimising methods and learning how to adapt to limited resources. And I completely agree that you cannot be spoon-fed and that you will work harder than everyone else.

I completely get it- because I went through with that. I was the first PhD student of both my supervisors too and I developed and optimised ALL the assays for my project because there was none previously. There wasn't anyone within the group to ask about the methods, so I had to ask for help from external research groups and adapt from published literature. I worked long hours because there was just so much to do to achieve my milestones.

I don't want to divorce! But would I have to?
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Quote From Bloop:
Hi tru, to answer your question about Dr. FL, no. She too received her PhD in 2016 and her area of speciality doesn't even align with mine. Hence, my concern. She does come to meetings, but doesn't contribute constructively.

I will be student No.3. However, her students 1 and 2, are visibly doing alright. Student 2 agrees with a lot of points I made above, but she is in a rut (had issues with a previous supervisor and was put with Dr. Ambitious because she was 'available').

I have not yet started my PhD, but about to. This is the point where I make my decisions, and I have to make them soon. Your response has given me the courage to step out of this rut I'm in, and to move forward for my own good, from a place that would otherwise only bog me down with his norms. Thank you!


BOTH supervisors are inexperienced, and one of them with a research area that doesn't align with yours? Yeah... my alarm bells just ring big time... But it sounds like you already know what you want to do... Yeah, divorcing now may save you lots of tears in the long run

I don't want to divorce! But would I have to?
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Hi, Bloop,

Let's evaluate. You have an inexperienced first supervisor who is not supervising you properly on a project you have little interest in. Supervision is key to your PhD success. While Dr FL is annoying, is she an experienced supervisor/established researcher who can add value to your research e. discuss data and troubleshoot issues, and maybe give you a great reference in future?Can you add some aspects of research that you are interested in into your project at a later date? Or would you consider changing supervisor/project?

I agree with rewt that a supervisor with little experience will make mistakes. However, I disagree that one has to put up with these mistakes at the cost of one's PhD quality. Your research fellowship/postdoc application does not distinguish between a fully supported PhD lab and one that was not. It is not necessarily true that a first time supervisor will put in extra effort to get you through. I know at least three students who had the unfortunate experience of becoming student no 1 who was neglected while the supervisor was trying to establish his/her lab. Besides, the supervisor generally will not put their best idea forward for student no 1 because they know they have better chance of success when they have established networks/collaborators, have established a research team with trained technicians, have preliminary data and know the academic system better. In other words, generally PhD student no 2 or 3 gets better quality PhD project. I have seen many examples of this. An inexperienced PhD supervisor may have less knowledge to discuss/troubleshoot problems and their reference letter may not be as highly regarded as an experienced/established one.

If one of your main aims of a PhD is to stay in the country that you did your PhD, perhaps you may wish to strongly consider Canada.

It sounds like you have just started your PhD recently and have little to lose if you leave your current PhD. Do think deeply and do what is best for you. Good luck.

Should I quite my high paying job for a full-time PhD
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Hi, bananas,

On this matter, I agree with starryeyed that you need a break not a PhD.

It sounds like you are bored of your job. Could you take a break of a couple of weeks and then discuss with your manager if you can work on another area of work of your interest in addition to your niche area? Tell your manager that you want to grow. In fact ask to be sent for courses or maybe a short term program. Or maybe you have outgrown that job and it is time for you to switch to a different company.

You have additional responsibilities as a married person with a child. To have no financial stability during your PhD studies and no guarantee of a job after your PhD can have very big impact on your family's well-being and put stress on your marriage. Only you can decide if it is worth that risk.

Postdoc - being introduced by PI?
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Hi, lucedan,

In most cases I know, the first postdoc position is obtained through introduction by your supervisor. And in a lot of times, the position is with a research group with strong collaborations with your supervisor.

I would consider that introduction by your PI as more of a strong recommendation of action to get that postdoc rather than a mere suggestion.

quitting PhD after 6 years
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Ok. Your situation is not ideal but at least you acknowledge where the problems lie.

Regarding your PhD, I suggest that you own up and tell your supervisor the truth. Tell him that you were too shy to ask for help and as a result you stored your cultures in the wrong manner and that has big impact on your work. And discuss about what you can do next. He may ask you to write up and go, or he can come up with emergency plans to set things right. Telling him will also release some of the stress you are under because you no longer have to hide the problem.

Regarding your other stresses, I suggest that you go to the counsellor. Talk to someone and ask for help and support. You need them. You have identified that your shyness, reluctance to ask for help and low self esteem as problems. If you do not sort them out, they will repeat in whatever setting you are in future, academia or not. Let the counsellor help you out.

Regarding a job, I suggest that despite whatever the outcome of your discussion with your supervisor, you should take a break for a few weeks. It has been a diffiult 6 years and a break would do you good while you find yourself again. Then start looking. You should discuss with the counsellor the types of job that may be a good fit to your personality amd find joy in life again.

Should I quit my PhD?
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Hi, Crabtree,

I think you need a break. Take some time off to think clearly about what you want to do.

You are really quite close. Do you think you can hang on a bit longer?

If you decide to stop, you could ask your supervisor if there is sufficient data for you to write up as a Master. That way you won't have a gap in your resume.

A few things I'd like to address about your thoughts:
-I don’t want to appear as a failure to the eyes of my relatives --> It's your life and future. Ignore them.
-I don’t wan’t to have a huge gap on my resume, which I wouldn’t know how to justify --> Write up as master
-I’m not completely sure I would be happier outside of academia. Maybe the passion will never come back. Maybe the impostor syndrome never goes away --> Would you like to work part time while you are deciding so you know if you are happier outside?
-I don’t really have the courage to start a new life in a new city all over again ---> Find work in your city then. If you do postdoc, you will likely need to move.
-I have one publication which I hope we will submit in the months to come (but everything takes forever, because of my supervisor perfectionism), and another one as a co-author which will probably also be submitted in the weeks to come. I feel like it would be a shame to leave without any publication. --> Wait until after the co-author paper is in before telling your supervisor you want to go. Negotiate with your supervsior if you can submit the first author paper earlier.

Have a good think about what future you want, academia or not. Choose the future that you will be happy with, regardless of what others say because ultimately you are the one living it. Good luck.

PhD or job? Help please!
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I would suggest that you pick the job. You can always do a PhD later (my friend did hers at 50 after years of work experience). There is also no guarantee these days that you will have a job waiting for you as a fresh PhD grad.

Jealous of phd co-student
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Quite a lot of us in this forum have been in a situation where we are less favoured by our PI. This includes being neglected while another student is being showered with attention, funding, papers and collaborations. Sometimes it could very well be that the other grand project was a culmination of years of previous work, with plenty of data and in line with the PI's future goals. And unfortunately, yours isn't that grand project and so despite your hard work, you probably won't get the praise and help that you feel you deserved.

Yes, you could end up very jealous and angry at this unfairness. Sometimes things don't improve even after you talked to your PI. Three things you could do. 1) bear with it and finish your Phd 2) change to another project/ supervisor and start over and 3) just quit. I do not recommend quitting because I think that is reserved for unethical harassing supervisors, major project issues and irreversible bad blood between students and PI. However only you can decide your actions from here forward.

Awarded studentship, have to accept soon, but still waiting for other decisions
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Hi, SarahT5,

I take it that you are interested in University 2 and not University 1? You can take the risk of rejecting University 1 and waiting on University 2, knowing full well there is a chance you may walk away with nothing. Or you could sign a contract with University 1 and forget about University 2.

I disagree with signing with intention of breaking contract with University 1 when something better comes along as it reflects very poorly on the person's character. In addition, researchers do talk to one another as it is a very small world. Regarding the legal consequences, you will have to thoroughly read the contract to find out.

Jealous of phd co-student
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Dear Jameson__,

In research, your research papers are your currency and value. The other student has a lot of research papers while you have less. So, yes, it is understandable that there may be preferred treatment towards this other student in the form of salary and actions.

All I can say is get over it. It is hard not to be jealous, however this negative feeling will not serve you well. Concentrate on your project and finish it as best you can. Luck plays an important role when it comes to landing a fruitful project with lots of publications, and sometimes it is not the most hardworking one that gets the most research papers or grants. Accept that life can be unfair and work hard to become a better version of yourself.

Career Break Collapse
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Hey MattG242,

Do you think that giving yourself a bit more time will help you? Perhaps you just need a bit more time to understand the topic better?

Another thing is, could it be an issue of incompatibility with topic/supervisor? Have you perhaps considered changing to a different topic or supervisor instead of quiting?

The last possibility is that if you feel really bad and hate doing this degree, maybe it just isn't for you? Perhaps deep down inside you know that you prefer working than further studying... I do agree with Tudor-Queen that you could choose to stop if you feel that is for the best. Ignore other people's comments. It's your life, so your decision.

Have a bit of time to think some more before deciding what is best for you. Good luck.

Quiting PhD - Terms and conditions
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Hi, ridz,

"you must refund to the University an amount up to the total emoluments received by you under the terms of the Scholarship"

If I'm offered the job, take it?
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Quote From GrumpyMule:
So many things to consider but if it means I can do what I love doing among other people who share the same interests, I'm definitely excited by that thought and that is also my planned answer for the question "why do you wish to leave your current job".


Have a go and trial the commute. I myself have had to travel for 1.5h one way for work for half a year, but the benefits of gaining valuable professional skills outweighed the tiring commute. I think you have solid reasons to take this new job if it means working in the right environment with people of similar interests. Try talking to your potential new colleagues as well to hear if they like the working environment there. If it is toxic, they will be talking about work less enthusiastically. Ultimately it is your call to make. I wish you the very best.

Failed PhD (MPhil) - Finding a new one
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Hi, themagusohphraxos,

When people showed abrupt silence after previous enthusiasm, my gut feeling is that at that point you have said something that caused them to lose interest. Think hard what you have said at that stage.

I agree with pm133 that you certainly should not be offering information unless they explicitly ask for it.

Eg of info you can volunteer: Your MPhil project, your papers, your technical and research skills
Eg of info you should not volunteer unless asked directly: Why you got an MPhil instead of PhD, why your relationship with your supervisor was bad, why you think funding may be difficult

Funding. I think you may still be eligible for funding. a master with 3 papers is very good. you have good chance.