Thanks for the reply, will look your thread up.

I started my PhD as more of a default thing, had a supervisor want me to do a project, I signed the papers and was doing it without much thought given other than it paid about what I would of started on as an graduate engineer, so may as well give it crack. I also like the idea of becomming an expert in my field, and a PhD was congruent with that also.

I think the people who want to generalise and say things like 'you'd be better off not going to uni' need to look at the stat's, sure one in many many people who don't have a degree become great successes (and you'l hear that story over and over), but i'd be pretty sure the number of people who have become very wealthy WITH a degree, as a percentage is greater. I have just read somewhere PhD's in engineering earn on average 18k more than engineers with just graduate degree. I might be sounding a bit on the defensive, but i hear so much everyday about how ya dont need a degree that I'm starting to get a bit fed up.

Its like you'l hear the story about the unseeded tennis player who won a major tournmament a lot more than you would if the top seed had won. That doesn't mean you should strive to become a lowly ranked tennis player to ensure you'l win a major tourmament.

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Hi, am new to this site but really glad i found it. Currently am into overtime doing my PhD, and its been a long hard experience. Main thing I've discovered thats hurt my progress is the lack of desire to obtain a PhD in the first place, and the bad connotations attached to it.

Where I come from trades people generally rule. All my peers are in the trades, builders, etc and anyone with a degree is often thought of poorly as someone who doesn't have any practical skills. More often than not you'l hear people tell a story about how someone has all this success even though they didnt do well at school and didnt need a degree etc (even motivational books, think and grow rich etc, have this theme to them). I've had this drummed into me all throughout my PhD and whenever I tell people what im doing, the old 'those who cant do, teach' and other academic run downs come out, normally in very subtle ways that aren't offensive to me at the time but take there toll when it comes to really getting motivated to finish the PhD.

So im hoping this site can provide a better reference group for me, and help me see the value of PhD/study more.

I think people without degrees often have chips on there shoulders that make them run them down so much. Farmer friends of mine scoff at me being at uni so long, and theyre often driving expensive vehcicles, and generally saying, look at me, no degree required here buddy.

Some of my best friends constantly say things like 'you dont need a peice of paper to get a job, people want people who know how to get things done, and you learn everything in the workforce anyway'. Im out numbered and don't try to back up the need for a degee etc..

I have an older friend whos director of an engineering company who often tells stories about how the best engineers he's employed dont have degrees (he never got a degree himself and it seems a lot like he's always running down university's and flying the 'you dont need a degree' flag).

I think degrees and to a greater extent post-grad work, while true it doesn't teach that many practical skills and these will need to be learnt in the workforce, it does tell an employer what you are capable of.

Moral of the story is, PhD's are hard things to complete when you want them bad, when you lack desire for them at all theyre near impossible.

Has anyone had similar experiences?

Thanks