In the first post I mentioned the MSci project is 75% of the final year, so, the high grades are almost impossible without doing outstanding in the project. Since this is a highly practical degree, being able to explain the results will require a being adept at a high amount of theoretical background and knowledge, so doing incredibly well in the final year in this case, will also highlight the grasp of ones underlying theory.
This is why I mentioned if doing exceptionally well in the final year will outweigh the previous years grades, as even if the project is worth 75 %, it also implies that ones theory is advanced, if they do that well.
Which is why I was wondering overall, if I were to apply after obtaining the degree, if it would favour me than my current situation.

I greatly appreciate your input, and I am incredibly happy you chose not to sugarcoat anything, because what you said, I will seriously consider and will probably hear it from others, so many thanks for your input.

About the “fire at feet” situation, yes this is completely right, this may play a role.
However, the working with close supervision is the opposite case here. In order to achieve an over 80 criteria for the MSci project, you are required to work independently on the project without much prodding from supervisor, and the more help you demand from the supervisor, that will lower the overall mark (20 % of the project is marked for “originality, independence, initiative”). Why I mentioned the 80% in the first place is because to actually achieve this, the criteria demands independent work. (My fault for not including this, but here I had to mention it as doing well in the MSci is opposite of being “spoon-fed” by the supervisor).

Learning approximately half of the content taught is one way to look at it, however, my university is very reluctant to awards firsts, especially high ones at that. To be fair, how high would you expect someone to get for a good chance for a PhD (if only considering grades), because obtaining even above 75% overall for the year is regarded by academics of the institution to be outstanding, and yet one could still say they have a 25% “learning gap”. This brings me on to the next point, being that a lot of the courses (bar organic chemistry and some physical) do not prerequisites from previous years, hence, the material not being completely reliant on the entire degrees course content. Also, as an example, PhDs in chemistry (in my case and many others) are usually branched into 3 of organic, physical and inorganic; point being made is that a 100% in physical modules, does not impact ones organic knowledge in any way, shape or form. As an example, many from my year have 40s for physical chemistry, but 85+ in the other; in a completely numerical situation, that may average out to an overall within the 60s, however, a supervisor has no use for an organic PhD position to a person who has 80% overall, with 90s in inorganic and physical, but a 50 in organic.
(Apologies for the long examples, but in this case, for chemistry, it has to be said).

Yes ofcourse, I understand, the consistency will definitely be different for a final year mark very much higher than the other years' "average" marks, but I was really hoping it wouldn't hinder me greatly.

Other than doing massive amounts of reading around the project topic, and working hard, and efficiently around the lab hour clock, how would you advise to make an outstanding impression on my supervisor from as early as possible?

The 2.1 students getting into the PhD positions really make me believe there is some hope, I do chemistry at a top end Russel Group, I would assume they are not too different?

Thank you so much for your input once again, I really appreciate it.

Thank you for the response.

For PhD applications, universities will require a transcript of marks for all years, so I was wondering, whether a very good 4th year mark, would be looked upon favorably, seeing as if the final year mark is much higher than all other years, it would demonstrate that you are very competent at the height of your degree; and thus would show what a candidate is capable of?

The additional skills you've mentioned are definitely a must, I understand that, as it is no easy feat.

With regards to past grades, if one makes a very good impression on their MSci project supervisor, will that aid with the application, especially if it is to the same university department? (since the academics will know each other relatively well). So is that likely to act in ones favor despite the current low 2.1?

Many thanks for our input, it is greatly appreciated.

Thank you for the response.

Could you elaborate on why getting onto a PhD is "easy", because I had always thought it was difficult, as you mentioned, that it is strongly advised to have a first class classification.

You're correct in saying my grades do not support my case very well, does that mean you recommend to waiting until finishing the degree, and if the overall grades turn out very good, then applying?

Would that put me in a better position, as the MSci project year is the most relevant to doing a PhD since that is where the longest part of research is carried out within the entire degree?

I didn't completely understand what you meant by doing a PhD elsewhere, do you mean that I should apply in my 4th year but to other places? If so, what do you mean by "other" places? Because not everywhere will have the research field in which I am interested in.

A merit equates to a 2.1 classification correct?

If so, shouldn't your MSc put you in a position to apply?

Hi, I'm new here, and wanted to ask about the impact of grades (in certain years) on a PhD application (assuming that references are good).

I study an MSci Chemistry degree, and will be entering 4th year this coming September.

My 1st and 2nd year results were mid 2.1's (~65%), however, upon receiving my 3rd year result last month I am rather worried; I have unfortunately ended up with a 2.2 (59%).

The average across the first 3 years totals to approximately 62%; now my MSci year counts for 40% of the entire degree.

I believe the usual time for PhD applications are November/December onwards?

However, I am under the influence that my 3rd year result will greatly impact the application seeing as at the current time, the 3rd year mark will be the most influential seeing as it is the most recent result and so far the hardest out of the first 3 years (is this a correct assumption to make?).

Now what I wish to ask is if I manage to score a strong first in the MSci year, will that outweigh the results of the first 3 years and put me in a better position to successfully obtain a PhD place? (The project is worth 75% and exams are 25% weightings in the MSci year).

And in this regard, will it be more or less beneficial to apply for a PhD once my MSci year is complete?

I wish to undertake a PhD within one of the top 5 UK institutions (I will not name it) as some of the projects I am very interested in (still narrowing it down) have supervisors there.


Many Thanks in advance


Other information:
I attend a top 5 UK institution (without giving it away).
I had no mitigation in the 3rd year or any other issues.
I need ~ 80% in my MSci year to obtain an overall first class degree classification (this is not impossible).