======= Date Modified 10 37 2010 23:37:00 =======
Just saw an advert for a 'Marie Curie Early Stage Researcher' in the UK. From the advert it's clear that it's a postgraduate level position and the applicant will get a PhD at the end of 3 years. But guess what the "salary" (as they call it) is. Up to £40k+ !!!!!

I rubbed my eyes in disbelief and double checked it, because even postdocs get circa £30k in the UK. But yup, it *is* a postgrad position.

I feel utterly pissed off because I am a postdoc in the same field and I am getting less than £30k! Surely this is not fair???

With all due respect, may I say, a PhD is meant to teach you these very skills. When you pass your PhD, you are supposed to come out as an expert in that particular field. And that has got to reflect in your writing. Of course, no one is perfect and there is no shame in asking your peers for an opinion/feedback about the articles you write.

This sounds a bit embarrassing to ask actually.

Is there any source of 'travel grant' in the UK, for which you can apply *after* the travelling arrangements have been made?

I'm a postdoc out of work currently and recently an opportunity has come up to spend a couple of weeks as a visitor at a foreign institution. I really want to go because if things work out reasonably well, they might even offer me a job later. So I'll need the money to cover the tickets, plus the accommodation costs for two weeks, plus some bench fees for that institution.

The problem is how to find all that money. All the sources in the UK that I know of require that we apply 2-3 months before the visit, which I can't do now because all this has worked out only recently.

Does anyone know of any sources of travel grants that are flexible enough for this sort of situations?

I am assuming you are talking about UK?

These things can be confusing to a fresh PhD - and to the experienced people as well. These posts are in fact relative and every university seems to have its own system. But in general, if a university offers all these 3 posts, the hierarchy is: Research Assistant --> Research Associate --> Research Fellow. This is the rule of thumb. That is to say, a person who does not hold a PhD yet gets Research Assistant post and a fresh PhD (or one with very little postdoctoral experience) gets Research Associate (so he/she gets quite a bit of supervision from the PI). A postdoc who is experienced/confident enough to carry out research pretty much on his/her own is given Research Fellowship.

Having said this, not all universities have all these 3 positions. There are some university departments in the UK - and pretty good ones at that - which only offer Research Assistant posts in science for postdoctoral work. No Research Associate posts there! On the other hand, there are also some UK universities which give Research Fellow positions straight after completing PhD! No Research Assistant or Associate posts there.

So this must be looked at in relative terms. You must consider what the standing of the given university is. Good universities usually tend not to give away Fellow or even Associate positions easily and an Assistant would be a respectable postdoctoral position there.

It *is* confusing and I think there is a need to bring in some sort of uniformity in this across the country.

Your frustration is understandable. If you closely fulfil all the criteria given in the person specification, you should at least get an interview. It is quite unlikely they would have had 5 other candidates that exactly matched the person specifications (most candidates would satisfy the majority of criteria, but not all criteria).

As someone said, they probably had someone in mind already. It's cruel on applicants who spend so much time preparing applications, hoping to be called for an interview in the next few days, only to be given the bad news in the end. In most cases they don't even send a reply - you just have to assume after 2-3 weeks that you haven't made it through!

I went to an interview some time ago, where I fulfilled all the criteria, gave a very good Powerpoint presentation on a relevant topic, answered all the questions without any problems (you know it when you have messed up an answer!) and yet didn't get the job. The reason? One of the interviewers had fallen asleep as soon as I started the presentation! He was literally dozing off!

What can you do? Nothing, really. At best, if you complain, they can give you another interview and then ask such difficult questions, you can never answer.

I'm not sure which country you're from or which field you're in, but my advice is based on scientific research in the UK, though it may be applicable in other fields as well.

What you are hoping to do is something every fresh PhD dreams to do. Ah, I've got a **PHD** godammit...... what else do I need? I can do anything now, right? :-) That's how we all feel. But hardly any of them actually get to do it. Just see the number of PhDs unable to find postdoc work currently!

Coming to the point, you have two options:
(1) to apply for one of those early career fellowships, where you are the PI
(2) to get an academic to apply for a grant based on your ideas, so he/she is the PI and your name is included as an assistant/associate.

Option (1) normally involves these steps: (i) identify the likely sources of funding [research councils etc], (ii) you then need a university department that would be happy to host you for that research, so you need to contact the academics there and try to convince them to support your application through a formal Letter of Support, (iii) draft out a detailed proposal and send it to the folks in that department who supported you, so that they are convinced and iron out the rough bits (iv) that department will then have to work detailed charts of all the financial cost of your research, which is required by the funding bodies (v) once all this is done, the application is submitted, most likely by that department (vi) they tell you about the outcome typically around 6 months after the application deadline [deadlines are normally in Sept-Nov] (viii) the starting date is usually about a year after the application deadline!! So think about it.

Pheww.... Not a simple task, is it? A lot of hard work! And even then, there is a ludicrous amount of competition for these fellowships. Something like 10-20 applicants per position.

Option (2) may sound easier and the funds are usually made available quicker than in option (1) [perhaps 6-8 months?], but the most difficult part is to try and convince the academic in question that your ideas are worth pursuing. If they submit a proposal and then it doesn't succeed, *they* get a negative credit and that makes it more difficult for them to win future grants. I think Research councils in the UK have introduced some rules like that recently. Quite ridiculous, but that's the sort of jungle it is currently. So think, why would a lecturer/reader/professor want to risk his/her own reputation for your sake? Unless they are absolutely impressed by your ideas.

IN ANY CASE, in both the options, the critical thing for success is your publication list. In scientific research, that is ALL they really want to look at. It creates a mad race of numbers (publication), I know, but that's how it is. You may be the most brilliant person in the world, you may be the next Einstein in the making, but that counts for nothing if you don't have a good publication list to prove your credentials.

I am not sure why your supervisor advised you to submit thesis before publishing papers. Is that a rule at your place? Usually they should encourage as many publications as possible. In UK, PhD students in science usually publish 3 papers during the course of their PhD. To win your own funding, more than 3 peer-reviewed papers are usually needed (to nudge past your rivals).

Harsh world, I'm afraid, my friend.

If you feel like it, do approach the academics you have in mind. There are no particular etiquettes, as long as you are articulate and polite. Mail them and explain nicely what is in your mind. A good academic is always happy to listen to new ideas (if he/she isn't like that, would you really want to work with them?). If you're lucky, some of them might invite you for an informal chat. From there, it's up to you to convince them.

Yes indeed, PhD funding doesn't involving just the stipend, it involves the fees paid on the student's behalf, plus other expenses like conferences etc. But even then it works out cheaper than a postdoc, whose salary is usually more than double than a PhD stipend, plus they have to contribute to pension scheme etc on the postdoc's behalf. So a postdoc certainly is more expensive (senior professors have told me this).

I have seen how this works - in some well-reputed UK universities. The task they gave a PhD student would not be too different from that expected from a postdoc. But postdocs are pressurised under a kind of guilty feeling that they are hogging more money.

There is no other way you can explain why there are so many PhD places, without there being a similar number of new postdoc places. If you're not going to channel the PhD intellect in a proper direction, why create such a pool in the first place? It's a huge imbalance. Research Councils have really messed it up big time in their lunatic bid to save money.

There should be a minister for the postdocs. Let's start with me. :p

Fantastic!... It's always best to get a job while you're wrapping up your thesis/viva etc. Any gap after the PhD only makes it more difficult. So well done!

Good to hear that people ARE actually getting postdoc jobs, which is a kind of miracle nowadays. 8-)

Keep it up! (up)

I am a postdoc out of job currently in the UK (though looking actively - ah, there we go again...). My field is sciences. I have had several research ideas since last few years, but never managed to pursue them because you know how they make postdocs work like donkeys... you never get time of your own. I also tried to obtain my own funding, but not much luck there.

Because I have some spare time now, I think I should do that research in my own time and get it published. Does anyone know how easy/difficult this is?

How do I access the journal articles? They cost a fortune if you want to buy them. In fact, how do you do a proper literature search without access to those indexing services (e.g. ISI WoK), which only universities seem to have access to. Do journals accept papers if you submit them in private capacity (with your home address)?

If anyone is familiar with this, I would really appreciate any help. Thanks! :-)

OK I'll try not to give you the advice you have not asked for and try to answer the question you have actually asked.

I certainly know someone in the UK who did a PhD in another country and is doing a 2nd funded PhD in the UK. So I think you *can* get funded for a 2nd PhD. The reason is this. A PhD student is seen a bit like any other worker. You do a certain amount of work for them and they pay you for it. It is not like asking for an undergraduate scholarship favour, where you have to prove that unless they give you the money, you'll remain illiterate. Lol. :-)

I have actually come to think that academics often see PhD students as a cheaper option to postdocs. That is probably why you see so many PhD positions but very few postdoc ones in the UK currently. They are essentially getting a postdoc's job done through PhD students, who are a bit cheaper to employ. It is totally ridiculous and it undermines research.

Anyway, good luck with your job/PhD search! The best thing is to contact the potential department and ask them bluntly and honestly.