Overview of rogerharris

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What lengths have you gone to, to make sure you succeeded after your PhD ?
R

Quote From bewildered:

I think if you want certainty, the best advice is not to do a PhD! The research process is not so forecastable that you can plan for things to happen as you wanted....And unfortunately whatever looks like the hot thing now almost certainly won't be in four years time.

I am what you would describe as a success story but one of the ones from whom you don't want to hear. PhD finished in just over three years, straight into a 2 year postdoc and then into a permanent lectureship. Frankly, the only lesson I can offer is never to underestimate good luck. I had colleagues during the PhD who did everything right, just like I did, they networked, presented, published, did secondments etc and are unemployed. Am I better than them - no I really can't say I am. If anything I was less organised but I was lucky. The only thing that I can think of that I had as an extra skill, which might have helped with my postdoc grant application was five years previous employment as a fast stream civil servant, which taught me how to write persuasively.

More seriously, educate yourself about the realities of the job market in your field, keep your mind open on what careers you would like to go into (note careers - in this day and age a sole focus on academia is a recipe for disappointment in my opinion) and try to keep as many options open as you can. Make use of the training offered by the university and if you can go on a GRADschool session, do (look at vitae.ac.uk for details).


thanks for heads up. I realise there is no certainty in this, its more about the situation not going dire or if it is going to go belly up, then the process itself better be something i can look back on without regrets.

That is interesting what you say about persuasion. my last research assistant position was for somebody who had strong social skills at selling. Sometimes a bit much, but he could ace a job interview, or a meeting make it look like he knew more than he did, lively engaging etc etc (i think he actually had a touch of mania !)

i been hearing more and more of this, business smarts aspect. Well i started and had businesses and which meant sales and watching the tricks of persasion so perhaps that might come in useful again. However as a nerd its not my preference to get like that.

What lengths have you gone to, to make sure you succeeded after your PhD ?
R

Quote From MHK:

of course networking etc will help you immensely but I believe no amount of flowcharts, mathematical equations will help (just my opinion).


well more in the logistic sense as if you were trying to predict stocks. i.e. Map out the market, key players, key growth trends over next five years, and so on.

What lengths have you gone to, to make sure you succeeded after your PhD ?
R

Quote From MHK:

I think perhaps you are over analysing/complicating the problem. Yes you should plan ahead - I knew I enjoyed my subject and although a PhD would equip me with the tools to succeed, it wasn't the be all and end all for getting a job that I enjoyed. I chose a PhD with industrial experience because outside of the academic setting experience in a business goes a long way. Apart from that I think you shouldn't plan too much because the world is constantly changing - maybe your dream job will not be there or that market saturated by the time you apply.


yes good advice, i had a feeling be half a subject you really like (as opposed to doing bitchwork for some professor) and the other half something that produces and can do something practical and common in the real world in almost a plan B manner. i.e. If you were doing electical engineering Phd, make half of it, on how to produce some custom device for local electricians (dont do Elec Eng but u get the idea)

Preferably do an area there is a strong local need for and would benefit from somebody who lives here, cant easily be siphoned abroad, like much intellctual work is these days.

What lengths have you gone to, to make sure you succeeded after your PhD ?
R

Quote From MHK:

I think perhaps you are over analysing/complicating the problem. Yes you should plan ahead - I knew I enjoyed my subject and although a PhD would equip me with the tools to succeed, it wasn't the be all and end all for getting a job that I enjoyed. I chose a PhD with industrial experience because outside of the academic setting experience in a business goes a long way. Apart from that I think you shouldn't plan too much because the world is constantly changing - maybe your dream job will not be there or that market saturated by the time you apply.


yes good advice, i had a feeling be half a subject you really like (as opposed to doing bitchwork for some professor) and the other half something that produces and can do something practical and common in the real world in almost a plan B manner. i.e. If you were doing electical engineering Phd, make half of it, on how to produce some custom device for local electricians (dont do Elec Eng but u get the idea)

Preferably do an area there is a strong local need for and would benefit from somebody who lives here, cant easily be siphoned abroad, like much intellctual work is these days.

What lengths have you gone to, to make sure you succeeded after your PhD ?
R

We are in a recession now, so basically it would seem planning the PhD and the career is in itself almost a thesis or computational strategy project.

Im interested in the stories here of the strategies employed by people who have made a good transition from PhD to the kind of work they specifically wanted to do, and not those who just did the PhD without such planning and just did well anyway.

Just how in depth did you go to scope out the future territory, and did you base your PhD plan to a large degree on where you thought the work action was going to be after you completed ? basically you have to try and make up to 5 year prediction of whats going to happen in the world the time you finish right ?

I presume this involved making realistic assessments of yourself, the kind of things you know you cannot do, and cannot do well, and the situations ?

Networking well in advance to predict the future etc ? Or What other lengths did you go to ? Perhaps making flowcharts and maps of all kinds of outcomes, with variables that could be altered with market conditions, Plan A,B,C,D etc ?






For nerds, what kind of academic and career political problems have you had ?
R

Quote From screamingaddabs:

"Basically if you are a nerd and want to cut it, in a world of normals really the only way to do it is be a complete *******. The fact is for the most part its dog eat dog out there, unless you just happen to be one in a thousand who can be a john nash, carl sagan etc etc. where all of a sudden everybody overlooks your eccentricities and you are a beautiful and unique flower."


The thing is, if you behave aggressively then you're not going to end up with many friends. Life is not a competition, no one is scoring you on being the highest paid or most highly ranked person. Human beings require social interaction, starving yourself of that (which you will do if you are constantly aggressive to get what you want) will make you deeply unhappy. I just think that this is poor advice unless your goal is very narrow and doesn't involve people liking you.

I'll use one of my own examples. I worked with a guy that fits your description of a nerd who then is a complete ****** to get what he wanted. He became director of the company. Huge wage and bonus. Everyone in the company dislikes him, he is not a happy man. Lots of money but not a lot else. In the same company there is another guy just as geeky and smart. He just gets on with his job and is nice to people. He's on a good wage (not 1 000 000 ish like the director but pretty good) he has a wife and new child and friends. He is a happy guy.


I would like such a utopian work environment but they are hard to find. did you consider your director was really happy inside but you just cant see it ?

Anyway i have to be objective and consider i am the crazy one incapable of being reasonable. Always did have a taste for excessive action and violence .

Maybe being reasonable is a trust you build over time. So i can so into situations and think i am being perfectly restrained and reasonable but really i have gone so far into being amenable (as it required such a strong effort), people think "ah this guy is so laid back, lets not take him seriously"



For nerds, what kind of academic and career political problems have you had ?
R

going of track somewhat getting into garages, but its to illustrate a point. The fact is the nerd brain is good at cutting through a lot of data very quickly.

We also tend to overload our lives with interests so its vital that what should be simple problems are dealt with quickly. I dont want to have to go to my garage 4 times (amounts to about 8 hours AND stress) for a simple problem when im in the middle of complex research. So i take an hour or two out and do their job for them in advance.

For nerds, what kind of academic and career political problems have you had ?
R

Quote From screamingaddabs:

Perhaps they don't listen because you march in telling them what to do in their place of work? Perhaps not being so gung ho and having a conversation with them would work better? Perhaps not expecting everyone to bow down to your incredible superior knowledge just because you tell them to would be better? Of course people are going to be defensive if you go into a place and tell them how to do their job.

Being an @rse is not the best way to deal with it. How about trusting a guy to do his job well? If he doesn't then you can tell them exactly what was wrong with the car and pay them accordingly then take your business elsewhere in the future. If you find a competent mechanic they will sort it out without your help.


precisely the reason i do that is from doing exactly what you said and it going pear shaped time after time. These mechanics are overwhelmed with increasing amounts of car types, full of all kinds of new tech, due to faster engineering, but their pride is not in touch with the reality of their capabilities.

Anyway i have found mechanics more amenable to me putting my case to them. The fact is some garages have a we know better, because we fix Ferrari and Porsches, so we can handle anything and do it well, but in reality I had to keep going back due to them missing something. Thats just one example.


For nerds, what kind of academic and career political problems have you had ?
R

a more everyday example is me the nerd taking my car to the local garage. Now being a nerd, i bought the workshop manuals, and know every part of it inside out, but i dont have ramps, tools, time and garage facilities to do the job. Often requires two people anyway.

Before i even take it to the garage ive looked up all the various replacement part types, their quality level, common fitting and misdiagnosis errors. Ive done half their job for them, precisely so i dont have to keep going back.

The mechanics disparage me as "the boffin". I can tell the information is going in one ear and out the other with them. So i get shirty and threaten various consumer actions if they dont do the job to the correct standard, and save me multiple visits.

Then they listen, then they do the job right.

For nerds, what kind of academic and career political problems have you had ?
R

Quote From hazyjane:

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======= Date Modified 05 Apr 2012 08:45:53 =======
Quote From rogerharris:

Basically if you are a nerd and want to cut it, in a world of normals...


False dichotomy, right there.

In my experience, the prevalence of social ineptitude among my academic colleagues is pretty low, so I don't support your sweeping generalisation. Furthermore, developing good communication skills is key to academic success and only the truly brightest can get away with not being able to interact well.

Finally, if the scenarios in which you find yourself are such that the only way you can get by is to 'be a complete *******', you're either mixing in the wrong company or applying an excessive solution to a problem you perceive to be bigger than it actually is. Either way, I don't see this suggestion as the path to happiness, fulfilment or success.


only a fake dichotomy if its nerds amongst nerds. Here i am referring to doing research with more business orientated people.
And yes, being aggressive is the only way to make the message loud and clear. Having you pegged as a nerd means these people have put you right down the social hierarchy from day 1. Its a form of prejudice. They see the nerd is lacking what other men have. I found that required excessive force to negate. It has been a successful strategy in my experience, now they dont think i am so predictable any more.

My professor wants me to fake the research
R

have you considered this may actually be a test of your integrity ?

anyway even if its not and you go along you are finished from all angles, and this person will know that.

Clearly this person has you pegged psychologically to some degree just to ask that. Either that or they are completely stupid and inexperienced. I have been in a similar situation myself. However i got into a series of arguments with my so called mentor, which escalated until we were almost physically going to fight each other. Gaining Prestige and career pressure can really corrupt some otherwise nice people to do stuff like this.

One day I realized it was not going to get better. I emptied my belongings from the workplace, then walked out the job one day with no notice and never returned. I had plenty of proof collected if they decided to try and pin the blame on me. Make sure you do the same. Get notes, signed documents, emails, or better still make recordings of conversations.

For nerds, what kind of academic and career political problems have you had ?
R

======= Date Modified 05 Apr 2012 09:23:50 =======
============= Edited by a Moderator =============
This is something it appears we are taught very little about in university. Its almost like the text books tell us a fantasy, about the aspie type heroes of science fighting against adversity, and if we do everything the way they did, i.e. persist with ultra science and rationality repeatedly and strategically everything will be alright.

Back to reality as nerds we are not so socially astute and just get run over in the real world by people with lesser academic brains, but instinctively fast social perceptions.

i.e. In social situations the nerd brain may have a 100-300ms latency in making replies or displaying attentional responses to facial stimulus, and that is enough in the competitive world for others to perceive you as “not there” and “easy meat”. From there on you have are on a slippery slope and I found the only thing you can do from there is ramp up your adrenaline levels and assert dominance in a very confrontational manner, that’s akin to being in state where you are basically holding back from whacking somebody physically. This makes it be very clear you too have perceived that person/crowd perception of your disability (albeit it took 300ms longer..gads what a crime !) but you are as a result now going to make damn sure you keep an extra eye on them from that time on

i.e. Basically if you are a nerd and want to cut it, in a world of normals really the only way to do it is be a complete *******. The fact is for the most part its dog eat dog out there, unless you just happen to be one in a thousand who can be a john nash, carl sagan etc etc. where all of a sudden everybody overlooks your eccentricities and you are a beautiful and unique flower.

Yeh right !