======= Date Modified 06 Jul 2011 22:16:37 =======
PART 2:

After 20 minutes, the nature of the questioning makes it clear there don’t appear to be any major issues. That said, I’m still tense. As the via proceeds, minor movements in the room only sort of half register, my supervisor stooping, the apparent silence of my external who seems only to nod his head and agree with my external at best, my external crossing her legs (huh?), my supervisor fiddling with his glasses, a rustle of paper here and there as various aspects of the thesis are discussed. I guess you become hypersensitive to movements and other things when tense, however, nothing registers as you're so absolutely focussed on the job in hand until possibly after it's finished.

It’s clear this is evolving into a discussion rather than an exam and I find myself thinking “Do nothing stupid and you might just get through this!!!” I privately expected to be told to reproof read the document and resubmit in six months, from the errors I picked up and this eventuality I’m ready for.

Then bag, 2 hours in, the external hits with my opinion on a question on a key piece of literature and I think “Oh hec, now the exam begins!!!”. My supervisor moves in to counter and kill the question dead with a bit of general discussion of his own, however, amazingly I renavigate the discussion back to the question. Have I just committed suicide?

Nope, I was better prepared than I thought and I expressed my opinion (I’ve since written papers on the subject), however, supervisor and examiners wanted to move on. So I think leave be, I’ve just got away with what could have been a tactical error and I am still a bit stressed.

The discussions go on for another 2 hours and 20 minutes, the length of the exam clearly due to the external’s interest in the subject. Finally, at 1.15 pm, a halt is called. I’m asked to leave the room and before the door is closed, all I hear is the external examiner saying “A lot of data.” The door is closed and the registrar appears to keep me company. We exchange a few words and then he is called in. I privately think “So another six months then!!!”

Then the door opens and I’m asked back in. A comment is made to fetch lunch into the room. “Congratulation Dr. Beefy, would you like to take a seat!!!” Streuth, I’ve done it!!!

“We would like a few amendments, so how long do you think it will take to do them.” I think “Oh no” and say “Three months?” Another tactical error?

Smiles all round, I am still stressed!!! “These are the corrections we would like you to make.” Three typographical errors are listed, one a repeat error but still only 20 minutes work as it's a 'Find and Replace' in Word. Whey hey, I’m through!!! “Oh” said the external examiner “I’ll be hoping for lots of papers from your data.”

“Okay” I said. I have since honoured that promise (partially a way I might add of establishing intellectual ownership). The last (ever?) paper I'm awaiting referee's remarks at the moment.

I stay for lunch when asked, simply because I’m too stressed to think straight, but after hardly touching the food finally leave. I’m still shaking, but I’m recovering my thoughts. Then my thoughts drift back over the viva. Suddenly my thoughts go back to those little movements in the room and the external crossing her legs. Streuth, my external was wearing stockings!!!

(As for my external’s attire, I’ve only told a few close mates about that. My best mate said “Stockings? How did you concentrate?” I replied, “You’ll never understand how stressful Ph.D.’s are and that was furthest from my mind whilst I was still in the exam, the penny dropped only afterwards.” Anyway, a very minor point.)

======= Date Modified 07 Jul 2011 08:27:52 =======
PART 3:

Anyway, back to supervisor’s secretary and she’s first to know and congratulate me. I’ve now one thing on my mind, I’ve got to get to Sunderland by 7 pm for a 7.45 pm kick-off. I’m into the loo, out of suit and into normal gear and Sunderland strip within three minutes. I return to the main office to tell a few other people to find my supervisor and external heading into his office. “That was quick, what’s with the clothes?”

“I’ve got to get my priorities right, I’ve a football match to go to.”

Supervisor says “He’s a Sunderland supporter.”

“Oh!!!” she says. I suspect she's not as immune to football as many women, but I refrain from pushing the issue.

So off I go. I join up with my mum (also a supporter) and we go to the match. She asks how things went and I respond “I passed, now can we get to the footy? Besides I rang you earlier”

(Truthfully, I couldn't remember if I had!!! As it happens, I had remembered, phew!!!)

I need not have bothered going. Sunderland were the better team, but thanks to a certain referee from the dorty Leeds (second hate team after Newcastle) called Mark Prosser we were down to ten men and had to settle for a 3 – 3 blasted draw against Preston North End (we were Championship back then)!!! It says something about my passions when I say that man completely spoilt my day. The football phone in on local radio was subjected to a huge moan about the game (just the game).

Back to the corrections, done the following day. Printing out is a different matter (as was the case with the pre-viva submission), another couple of days, internal examiner verifies corrections, following day up to bindery in neighbouring University, paid extra to get the binding of the hard copies done quickly and finally after ten days, hard copies submitted and paperwork signed off. So March 10th , it was all over (I actually had in my head it was 10 days it took me rather than 7, however, the dates check out differently)!!!

It need not be a dour day and a few elements of unexpected humour can go a long way!!!

Also, a serious remark is having the football to go to after was actually a big help as I had something else to think (or worry) about.

AND APOLOGIES TO ALL, FOR THE LENGTH OF THE STORY. :-)

Actually, the irony here is the detachment you felt probably got you through without the stresses that many of us put ourselves through.  You were able to walk away, put it to the back of your mind and not find yourself stressing about it, say, when in the middle of a night out with your mates!!!

Redundancy and the threat of dole was on the distant horizon when I decided to go for my PhD and sure enough, some time after I left my former employer closed down.  However, if I'd not wanted to do a PhD then I would have looked fro another job whilst still in the last.  I wanted to do one, I wanted the challenge and I wanted to chance to do some cutting edge research.

Both family and friends had their doubts about what I was doing and my mum expressed her concern about me giving up a full time job.  Her concern was a genuine one, however, she understood how much I wanted to do one and supported me all the way.

One of my mates, even during the latter stages of the writing up stage intimated that he thought the best thing for future employability was to put the PhD on ice whilst I learnt to drive (I still can't).  He was not happy about me being a student again and the full reasons never became clear, though I think his mindset was one of everyone should be in a 9 to 5 job and on a steady wage from when they left school to when they retired.  I did wonder if I thought I was being some sort of financial burden on the tax payer, one reason I didn't try to explain to him about EPSRC funding.  There was also an element of me continually bitching on about workload.

If that detachment means you can treat the PhD like a job and you can put it to one side as and when you feel, that has to be a good thing.  However, the drive a lot of us feel to gain a PhD means it's never very far from our thoughts.  We stress about it, we lose sleep over it, we become depressed about it especially as the pressure ramps up during write-up.  I would have loved to have gone home at a weekend and switched off, spent time with my friends and family, and not found myself switching on my home computer to work on it and find half the day had just disappeared.

However, I note your remark that you're not doing the PhD you wanted for the reasons you state.  Therefore, you did want to do one and you wanted to do research.  Also, you opted to do a PhD to avoid unemployment when there might have been other options to improve your employability (voluntary work, taking alternative work until you found something, etc.) and you're now still there as the PhD draws to a close.  Are you sure you're as dispassionate about your PhD as you say?

Very soon, you'll have to decide on what happens next.  I think the fact you've got through shows perhaps you're more committed to the process than you believe as PhDs are serious tests of character.  If you are really not committed to what you are doing, that suggests you've some sort of knack or talent we'd all love to have.

These are just my thoughts on your posts and I might be a million miles wrong.  Either way, I hope you finally get to work on the subject you're most interested in, whether that be post-doc or in the real world (be prepared for the over qualified tag in looking for work).  If this is what you're capable of when you're not committed to what you're doing, what you'll achieve when you are committed I'd love to see.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

(up)

======= Date Modified 01 Jul 2011 15:35:02 =======
Yes, not only did I know who they were, I actually knew them as my primary supervisor was friends with both. My external examiner was a leader in her field.

That said, the lead people in each field will know each other and unless there's a serious rivalry or the thesis is screwed up for whatever reason, the routine should be make sure the candidate doesn't submit untill the supervisor is 99% sure the outcome is only going to be minor corrections.

Provided the candidate doesn't screw up the viva, the minor corrections should really be a rubber stamping process.

However, you do get poor supervisors, poor subissions and people and students, supervisors and examiners who don't do what they're supposed to.

======= Date Modified 01 Jul 2011 10:53:22 =======

Hmm, just above UK minimum wage. However, also tax free.

I finished March 2004 and was on a stipend of just over £8,000 a year. That was the extended allowance for a mature student too, as otherwise it would have been £6,000. Another lad with wife and kids got approximately £12,000.

An amount you can actually live on now then?

I was paid every three months, so that hasn't changed.

======= Date Modified 29 Jun 2011 13:08:18 =======

I cover briefly in Question 5 of my own blog:

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net/

As I asked the other person in the same situation, when you were given the corrections in the second viva was it made clear this would only lead to an MPhil?

If not, you might have a case for an appeal. Be aware the best you can hope for is re-examination.

======= Date Modified 29 Jun 2011 13:09:01 =======

Was it made clear to you that after the second viva, minor corrections would only lead to an M.Phil.?

I actually think there's a case to answer if this was not made clear. Seek solicitor's advice here whilst initiating grievance procedure if that's the case.

Be aware the best you can hope for is re-examination.

Hopefully my blog will help a little, however, it's not chemistry specific.

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net/index.html

Also for a smile:

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net/phdgame.pdf

;-)

My predecessor was dyslexic, yet he got through.  I don't see what the issue is provided you get the support you need.

My primary supervisor was also his and he would not allow a candidate to submit until he was 99% certain at most they would only incur minor corrections.  So the thesis was read, reread and reread again, etc. until he was happy it was okay to submit. 

I guess you have to be up front about your dyslexia from the beginning.  However, contact admissions (not your potential supervisor) and see what provision will be made for your disability.  A level playing field has to be created and that's what the various legislation is there for.  You can then tell your potential supervisor not just about your dyslexia, but you will also come across as more organised as you will know about what provision and help will be available.

There's no accounting for the views of different possible supervisors and how they will handle the situation.  However, at interview if there's a problem then they are not people you want to work with.  They are the dinosaurs with the problem and not you.;-)

I'm PhD after 2:2 plus Masters. I needed a break after Masters and 5 years works experience also gave me a little extra to add weight to my PhD application.

From my blog:

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net/

6) So what qualifications do you need to be able to do a Ph.D.?

This varies from country to country, however, a normal level of qualification required is (assuming a scale where you need 3 points):

A first class or second class (first division) degree (1 or 2(i)) - for example, a B.Sc., B.A. or B.Eng. - this can be viewed as 4 points (for a first class degree) or 3 points (for a second class - first division degree) on the scale.

A second class, second division degree (2(ii)) may be acceptable, but funding may be difficult to obtain - this can be viewed as 2 points on the scale. A masters (M.Sc., M.A. or M.Eng.) will help by lifting you from 2(ii) to 2(i) equivalent level, moving you up from 2 to 3 points. A 2(ii) plus masters was my route.

A third class degree (3) is not normally enough (only 1 point) - a masters is definitely needed and a masters is extremely difficult to get onto with a third class degree.

But all is not lost. Relevant industrial experience can also give you a leg-up, with two years experience giving you 1 extra point and five years experience giving you 2 extra points. This allows for a rarer route via H.N.D. plus 5 years relevant industrial experience (which you'll need to get onto a Masters without a degree) + Masters (M.Phil. or M.Sc.), giving you 3 points without the need for a B.Sc. (Hons.) or equivalent.

Hope that makes things clearer. Note this is the British model.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

There's also this:

http://www.economist.com/node/17723223

or this:

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472280a.html

Bluntly put, it does feel there's an anti-PhD feeling out there at the moment and the oversupply due to (my opinion) academics using PhD studentships as a source of funded cheap labour doesn't help matters. I can come up with plenty of negative comments about the PhD process, but right not you're not helping yourself dwelling on it.

However, your main concern is getting submitted and through your viva.  Whilst I sympathise with your views, it is nearly over and going through this 'pointless' frame of mind right now is not helping your cause.  Once you submit, you've a few weeks of serious swatting up your thesis material and also other related material you're expected to know.  If you're not focussed on that, why are you bothering. If you go into viva with this negative frame of mind, you are all the more likely to fail.

Go to your supervisor, tell them you don't see the point and disappear into the sunset.  Then try to explain to an employer what you've got to show for the last 3 to 4 years.  I know there's an anti-PhD bias out there, but after all this time spent on your PhD it's going to be more damaging to come out of the last 3 to 4 years without one.  Then, you really will have wasted your time!!!

Submit, have a couple of days on the drink and away from the PhD work, get these feelings out of your system then knuckle down to prepare for the viva.  Once you've got that out of the way, then is the time to having an inquest about it.



Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Okay, so I didn't run the spell checker.

Anyway, spelling flames are supposed to be the lowest form of wit in the online community? Can you lot not do better that that?
;-)

======= Date Modified 26 Jun 2011 11:51:31 =======
Need to get access to the following articles. Can anyone help me please?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010938X0900078X#aff1

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0043164800003823

http://www.springerlink.com/content/r701421g022334v1/

Two slightly different subjects with these three papers, however, these are needed to tie up some referee remarks from two remaining leftover papers I'm finishing. My last tenuous links with academia you could say.

The friction paper is more important. I no longer have download access to these websites.

If anyone can help, can they PM me?

Thanks in advance,

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

I can't offer specific advice as my background is not in your field. However, I hope my blog will offer you some general advice about the PhD process.

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net/

All the best,

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Vilee,

I know exactly how you feel and yes, to get into a real world job, I hid my PhD. My situation was compounded by workplace problems during a post-doc at a second Uni. (not my PhD Uni.).

However, in saying that if I had my time over again, I would still do the PhD. It is something I wanted and had to do. It's difficult to explain, however, I had to 'complete the process' and take on a project that would really challenge me. The PhD was just the ticket.

I agree with you hiding your PhD (that seems to be rule of thumb in a world that actually seems to denegrate PhDs), however, I also believe a few years down the road you'll look back and probably be glad you did it. In my case it's a feeling of no regrets. If I hadn't done it, I'd have been wondering 'what if'.

That said everybody is different.

Either way, chin up as it's nearly over. ;-)