Here's hoping that the completion of a PhD does not equate to redundancy with regard to experiential wisdom and knowledge sharing...
I am just starting my part-time one (officially on day 2 to be precise) and there are many years ahead, but I'd hate to think that the end of this process for everyone is simply a 'tick, been there done that' sort of thing-'now get the heck off this forum!'-unless of course you want to.

I like the idea of framing my PhD process as being as sort of tragi-comedy or possibly a comedy of errors though with an 'All's well that end's well" finish...Macbeth seems pretty grim.

Wal when you said that you crash landed, metaphor aside, are you just making a reference to coming to a 'screaming halt' after the last months of craziness or did you have an awful viva experience?

Thought I'd share my 'tale of woe' since last post. Came back to work and life from a conference feeling fantastic, having met with lots of encouragement. Found a seconded position offered as a practitioner education lecturer at my university and applied. Had to tell my senior senior management as the position was 'seconded' and my present employer still owns me.

Thought I might at least make a short list or interview (so might be good for experience even if I didn't get it). Employer thought I would get it (their own opinion not mine) so they had a big chat about it amongst themselves and spread it around that I had applied. No shortlisting, (brief casual email to let me know this) position withdrawn and upgraded to Associate Professor level (not a hope in hell of that post) and if they can't get a suitable qualified academic in time for this year and then go back to secondment applications, it will be too late in the year for my employer to agree to let me go. Ah well.

I did,however, apply to have my EdD transferred to PhD before my official commencement on Monday and they seem to think that that particular application is probably going to be fine. So early next week, I will find out.

However, after the let down of the previous exciting possibility of academic work, I'm almost at the 'who cares' point. It is not a big thing and my employers are pretty happy I'm staying but I had built up my hopes a bit, I think and thought that this was the start of a new phase in my career. Oh well...will keep with my present job (a good one and I am grateful that I have it-don't get me wrong) and will keep working away at part-time studies-maybe in a couple of years, with some more hard work, there will be a similar opportunity.

Hi Zinar, it would depend what you were using the MPhil for. If you were not planning to be an academic or scientific researcher, then MPhil would be absolutely fine. Most employers look at both aspects of a potential candidates ability. This means they weigh up a balance of qualifications, experience and/or capability to work effectively in the role (if you are a new entrant). So for many jobs, having an MPhil would be an asset-a lot of employers wouldn't necessarily know the difference between an MPhil and a general Masters anyway-and Master Degrees are well regarded on the whole by employers in general.

However, you will be fine, I am sure. The fact is that you have now been placed on a PhD program and you would deserve to be there. It is nice to know there would be a safety net but I am sure at present that your supervisors have every confidence in you achieving your PhD.

It is really sad and upsetting to read all of this but, like others, it helps to know that many other people have similar issues with family members or past difficulties with support.

I personally think that your aunt and uncle sound pretty awful to be honest and are unable to hold any strong and positive connection with you so the sooner you cease to want this, the better you will feel. They don't sound as if they will ever give you appropriate love and support but that really is because they can't or won't do it-not because of you-it is down to their own narrow mindedness and lack of empathy.

Congratulations on your PhD and moving to Edinburgh-how exciting. I hope the move goes well and you have a great time, as well as the usual gruelling one-but sometimes that aspect of life-the challenge part can be exciting as well as tough-like running a long distance race.
Take care Flack, you deserve better than that-go out and get some 'better' for yourself and don't look back.

Congratulations Halo on your wonderful and (no doubt) extremely well-deserved results for your Masters. Yes you can publish before starting your PhD. I have just delivered a paper at a conference and submitted this to peer review before (optional-lots of presenters didn't). The peer review process took a while and the paper was accepted but they gave me a couple of pages of recommendations for changes.

I was a bit dismayed but sat down over a few days and made all of the changes and then it was accepted with no problems at all. When I gave the paper last week to a pretty large and diverse audience, it was really well accepted and I met my Masters supervisor in person (as I was distance student I used to have phone conferences with her). She told me to submit to the National Journal and said that it would be accepted and also told me that I needed to start publishing straight away into my doctorate in order to get a good research profile. She seemed to think that this was absolutely fine and that I shouldn't doubt myself. So I say 'go for it Halo'.

I came away from my conference with business cards from two different local education systems from different states (I am in Oz) who wanted to check out my research and a great deal of encouragement. It really consolidated my thinking and direction for the future.

Seize the day HaloChanter(up) and well done!!

I was interviewed for a qualitative study a few years ago by a man who was doing his 3rd (yes, I could hardly believe it!). He had two in History and was doing a sort of educational history study-hence his interviewing me as a teacher who was trying to implement curriculum change (dangerous stuff if you are a teacher!!:).

I also was taught by a history lecturer who took early retirement at a time of funding costs and then a few years later turned up at a very prestigious university doing another PhD and a colleague also embarked on a second one about 10 years after gaining the first in order to get funding for her project in retirement.

All three were retired so I think finding funding for key projects and staying in touch with a university was the main impetus behind their second and third goes. I am not sure though, why they took the road of a second (or third) doctorate rather than looking for grants and things? Maybe doctoral funding was more attainable?

I think sometimes it is just that taking that first step is uncomfortable for everyone bar the most extroverted really super confident sort of person, and once people have found a few friends or acquaintances to fall back on, they stick with them because it is comfortable.

If you are a brave sort of introvert, Ive found, you almost always have to be the one to take the first step-. But like others have said, it doesn't help getting bothered about this or putting too much thought into it. The really good thing about introverted people is that they often make fantastic listeners and once the ice is broken a bit, you might find that people really appreciate your capacity to listen at times and be there for them, so they are not too fussed if you are quieter and don't say as much as those people who are naturally more boisterous and chatty.

It does just take a bit longer though to break the ice. Another thing that I have found is that most quieter people tend to have a few closer friends rather than a huge crowd of mates and this is fine as well. As well as this, you do not exist in order to have value to others-this happens in social interactions and is a byproduct of society, etc but you have the right to exist and be happy and be yourself (providing you are not actually hurting anyone or thing) just because you are...it is that simple. I think the advice about joining some activities and interest groups is really good, because in these sorts of things, the activity or group or situation, gives you something in common with others who are present and this sort of thing is always a really good icebreaker. There is always someone at these events who feels just as shy even if they don't always show it.:-)

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I'm just starting my DEd (Research), rather than PhD but am still uncertain as to whether to transfer it over to the PhD (I can do either really). For the moment it doesn't really matter-its a doctorate.

I have officially begun getting my head around the Master's lit review-literature and seeing what has been published since the MEd thesis submission. A fair few things it seems!! :) As doctorate is an extension of MEd-I need to get myself up to date I think!

I'm a part-time student and so am sorting out my boundaries between the demands of work, of home and of research and study. Thanks for the thread podge and Walminski, I loved your post.

Cheers:-)

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Rhea, after many years I have finally chosen to celebrate that on Myer Briggs (personality tests, etc) I come out as a perceptive intuitive feeler. In fact I come out in a version of this type in every personality test I just about do-when I get bored I do tests and quizzes and become even more bored by facebook.

I have hidden this for years because I wanted to be a thinker. Intelligence is highly valued in my family of origin and while your personality type (if you believe in such things) has nothing to do with innate intelligence but is more your style or modus operandi in the world-being a 'feeler' (sounds bloody creepy put that way, doesn't it?) isn't what is popular in academic circles.

However, I went to Vietnam for a holiday recently and found that my life values were given a bit of a twist by the experience and all of a sudden somethings I had been fighting and suppressing for years, seemed to be quite okay- so instead of hiding and fighting the fact
that while I think I am relatively smart, I know my first preference is feeling and being ashamed of this-I began to just be happy about this and happy that despite this I was still doing my doctorate.

Doing a PhD is not about being the most brilliant person or thinker of the moment. It is about committing to a process and valuing that process of education and where it leads you-with hopefully a sound piece of research at the end. And education is of the mind and intelligence but it is about the heart as well...so embrace your (sodding!!!) PhD and the commitment, the thought, the determination and the effort you put into it-it will contribute to your very high level of education, a privilege many in the world would envy, and it will hone your thinking, even if you don't think that you are that smart-which is most likely not true any way.
Hope you find the article btw:-)

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Hi Clovercloud,

just one point. Even if the supervisor does 'get on fine' with the others-alarm bells rang for me when you said that the relationship issues were just you -therefore you were the problem. You are a person not a problem and if there are issues in your relationship with the sup then you both share the problem. It really is that simple. No one is 100% responsible for a tricky relationship-it is always shared (unless it is a stalking or abuse sort of thing in which case it isn't even really a relationship).

There is a difference between an interaction between people (one reacts really crazily-and in that case maybe the person is responsible for that specific tricky interaction-btw when I say 'crazily', I just mean emotionally and randomly-we all do it every now and then) and an ongoing relationship. Besides which the balance of power lies with the supervisor so they need to man up to their responsibility there. I would not spend time beating yourself up over this particular issue or taking on all of the responsibility. Those thoughts won't help you and they are not an accurate reflection of reality. However, I would keep it to business as regards future interactions-it will be more productive for your work and your own self esteem. Don't worry about the sup praising up the other student either. Nice for her and maybe she deserves it but it sounds like sup is either misguidedly hoping that you will then follow the other girl's lead OR using it
as a form of 'look at her-isn't she great-means I am an okay sup and all this rubbish is down to you-not me' sort of manipulation.
Doesn't make sup a bad person, just isn't a very effective way of managing things or people.

My employer does it all the time with people and I have found the best way to deal with it is to still like and appreciate the person they are praising while completely being unfazed in anyway by employer's childish manipulations-works a treat. I wish I could help out more here but thought maybe a dose of healthy cynicism might help a little and other posters have given some positive and really supportive advice-which I don't need to repeat as they have said it pretty well...

One more thing though...academia can be a little bit of a toxic environment at times. My former partner, an academic (very talented) lost his job (undeservedly) through a cut throat university cost cutting exercise some years ago and many of the people he worked with weren't that nice-and quite often his own approach to things was pretty iffy-when I think about it. Understanding people and how they learned or how to work with them wasn't really part of the agenda back then. Sometimes, when I reflect on my own busy, large and harried workplace, I realise that for many of the staff at the College (secondary) I work at, understanding and managing human interactions effectively just isn't their forte. So I can't stress enough that taking responsibility completely for all that is occurring for you right now, is not being fair to yourself.:-)

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Thanks Ady:-)
I will have a clear plan by the time I put forward my proposed changes but I will also make it clear that the first project undertaken will be the one that pursues a line of the Master's 'further research' part, so that they can see and I know that I have a structure to start with and a fair bit of research into the area already.

By the time that project is over-2 years I would think, then I will just about be "over it" (in term's of 'had enough of that particular topic') and should have a fair bit of the literature completed for the new one. I have four course work units to complete first though but plan to complete one per term (including summer and winter terms on top of the usual semester one and two-so they should be all complete by Jan 2013-and project number one about a third complete.

Thanks for your really positive and encouraging response-it is so helpful to have a reader or two-keeps me accountable and keeps it real rather than in my head!

I'm posting this thread about my change of approach for my Doctor of Education, including my topic and how I will be structuring it. The post is helpful for me because it is sort of an official record but perhaps (if people do read it) it might help someone else out there as well.

I chose the EdD because I know in my heart of hearts that while I really respect and enjoy academia, I don't want to be working there full time. I actually love and thrive on mixing with students, parents and teachers and support staff within a school or system-so would not want to leave this totally for academia anyway (even if this was an option). I like the variety and complexity of my work which is always different-it helps working in a really large institution because there are many people to interact with.

However, my topic previously was to do primarily with learning difficulties, parents and improving roles, etc. My Master's thesis comments (and I know this myself) clearly indicated I could undertake a complete doctoral thesis on extending and exploring this further and my supervisor to be (start in October) has said if the Doctorate and PhD are the same work and load then do the Phd and really extend the initial Masters thesis.

The thing is though- I don't want to spend 80.000 words plus and 6 years only on this topic. I'm loving my new role (last year) as Head of Middle School Curriculum and I love getting back into curriculum, learning and working with young adolescents (both with and without learning difficulties and needs) and looking at all the diverse aspects of their lives. I love the creative part of creating projects that bring out the best in such students and with mentoring and creating teams with staff to achieve more overall.

Ive realised that the thought of only taking up my Masters thesis topic alone and being an expert in this is actually quite depressing. So after some months and a couple of vivid dreams, Ive worked out that I am going to borrow the model of some other universities professional doctorates-take them to my new supervisors and adapt my original proposal so that I do three work based projects-one an aspect (small aspect) of my Masters but related to the middle years, one on curriculum and students and one on staffing and cultural change and then write a linking paper overall.

So I am going to make my Ed Doctorate look more like an Ed Doctorate and less like a PhD and directly align with my work and all of my interests. It is much more exciting but will be just as challenging but more practical (for me at any rate). I'm excited because it seems potentially more creative and more inline with who I am and have developed into, than if I just followed my original plan (which sort of stemmed from my Masters supervisor's lead).

So I have to write up this plan before I meet my new team but the first official meeting is a month after I start (thus it is in mid-November) and I have time.
8-)Yes! Freedom...

You can do it! This time last year I was in same situation-and like Caro worked full time and studied part time. It feels like it will never end but it does and when you hand it in-the feeling is great.

Results time is great too but even when you do well can seem anti-climatic. Whole achievement thing sinks in over a few months later.

Just think- it will end-you can do it-you are determined to do it....good luck(up)

Do you have to quit-can you transfer or request another supervisor who may be at another institution (as well as your current one). I am only asking as I'm wondering whether there might be ways to make your situation better without quitting it entirely. (I don't live and study in UK-so disregard this completely if it isn't possible where you are). Good luck Wthatcher btw-tough to be in your situation.(up)

When I flipped it when I thought I had finished my drafts and supervisor wanted more changes-I felt pretty much the same. Once I took a little bit of time (few hours or a day) to get my head sorted, I found as Caro mentioned, that the rewriting I thought would be huge, actually consisted of rewriting some passages and just organising and making things flow smoothly overall, once I had done this. It seemed huge but was actually very manageable once I sat down and did it.

My data was transcripts and historical, so wasn't stats but I think Joyce and Caro have given really really good advice. You have two weeks to go and most of your work completed. You can do this and your 'slack' supervisor obviously thinks so as well. He might be too laid back or just overworked, busy and forgetful but he would know how to get you a Master's that will pass.

Don't despair...take a tiny break and get right back into it. Is there anyone you can go to who can help you look over your new stats-if not have a hissy fit in your supervisor's office and get him to help you. It is the least he can do-but if (like me) you hate it when you do the hissy fit (has to be extreme duress or anger) then find someone else who might just walk through this bit with you for a little while.