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azhan
Friday, 13 September 2019 at 12:11pm
Thursday, 17 October 2019 at 9:39am
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Thread: Failed viva

posted
17-Oct-19, 09:39
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 day ago
Quote From dval:
I am shattered. I submitted my dissertation after my supervisor gave positive feedback on the dissertation. She said that the write up was very good.
I went for the viva but the examiners' feedback was negative. I was asked to resubmit.
Now that my supervisor has seen the examiner's feedback, she agrees with their feedback. Yet, she was very clear that her support will be very limited. There will be no meetings but she might read the work again. (but I am doubting this!) I am a burden for her since I am an extra number. My sense is that she washed her hands of it.

Did anyone experience this?
Where they supported or is it assumed that you work on your own on the feedback given by the examiner?
Could the university give you a new supervisor?


Hi,

Which university do you go to? If you don't mind me asking?

At my university, they have like yearly (mini) vivas explaining what you have done in that year to the examiners. Is that not a thing at your university?

Thread: Is it worth appealing?

posted
15-Oct-19, 19:15
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 3 days ago
Quote From Tudor_Queen:
Yes, good luck. I think when I was sitting on a panel, the key thing that was important (in addition to the grounds for appeal and the demonstration of evidence) was the attitude of the student. I think it is about whether those sitting on the panel think that if the appeal were successful, the relationship between the supervisor(s) and student can easily continue and be successful. If the latter doesn't look likely, then even if there are possible grounds to reject the original decision, they may not vote for it simply because they can't see it ending up working.

I agree with eng77 about looking for a job (or other PhD opportunities) so that you have Plan B firmly in place should you be disappointed with the outcome of the appeal.

Fingers crossed for you!!


Plan B is definitely something I'm undertaking. Perhaps I can try doing a PhD in my university that I graduated from. I think they will provide some opportunities.

Thread: Is it worth appealing?

posted
15-Oct-19, 15:21
edited about 8 seconds later
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 3 days ago
Hi,

Thanks for the kind posts. I'll see what happens, I hope it goes well.

Thread: Is it worth appealing?

posted
14-Oct-19, 00:37
edited about 7 minutes later
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 5 days ago
Hello everyone,

I want your opinions on whether it's worth appealing. I'm a first-year PhD student and I just finished my first-year report submission (2nd time round) and my examiners are not satisfied with the work I've done so far. There is also the other problem that they tested my maths knowledge and I had problems presenting basic notation but really I felt a little stage fright and my mind was completely blank. I don't know what happened to me but they think I should terminate my studies.

I also have to mention for this year, I was responsible for taking care of a toddler. Dropping/picking her up from school was very exhausting and demotivated me. However, the responsibility has been drifted as the toddler will be moving to a closer which means more to on my research and catch up. I also did everything my supervisor wanted me to do (attended meetings nearly every week and we get weekly todo list).

The responsibility drifted occurred after my report submission and presentation. My panel has mention I have the chance to appeal. I personally think I should appeal as I think it's unfair that you are not giving me the chance to catch up on the additional time given to me on a daily basis. It's quite hard to prove by documents that I have picked up and dropped of a school. Now sure what to do here?

The types of docs I'll be providing:
- Email communication with my supervisor to prove that I presented weekly updates on the work
- The number of commits, the point here is to show I've been occasional updates on the report show the comparison of work between the times I had the toddler responsibility and without.
- Copies of work done in the past weeks: this will show I made progress on my work and improving my maths knowledge. Also, show a list of future goals that I wish to complete. Also results produced, perhaps new paper suggestions.

What do you think?

Thread: Got requested to terminate my studies?

posted
11-Oct-19, 19:23
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 week ago
Quote From abababa:
In general, these decisions are made (or supposed to be made) with the student's best interests in mind.

If you didn't get up to speed on the background etc., the difficult decision for the University/panel is whether it's in your best interests to continue to study (and potentially pay) without a likely completion. If, based on progress to date, their consensus is you'd waste even more effort in a failed or never-submitted PhD, then it makes sense to terminate it for everyone involved.

You should appeal if you think you can genuinely put in the effort to solve the problems. If circumstances have changed and this is going to be the case, then you should appeal and state this case.

Your personal circumstances typically need to be formally reported to the University to 'count'. Many, many PhD students fail to do so because you can be in bed sick/depressed/bereaved etc. and still 'work' on a PhD (because you're not usually expected to be sat at a desk 9-5), which leads them to attempt to 'work through' these situations - then they are inevitably penalised because they've not formally been away. If you do take the route of appealing and continuing, and circumstances change again, I would make sure you approach it as though you had a 9-5 job and take formal leave of absence.


I do think I will be able to catch up with the work I just did and the background knowledge. But it seems they think I will not able to do it on time. They didn't give me a reason why they terminating in regards. All I know it's either maths or will not able to catch up.

Thread: Got requested to terminate my studies?

posted
11-Oct-19, 18:40
edited about 1 minute later
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 week ago
Quote From Tudor_Queen:
It might be worth talking to someone impartial in your academy / student union who can advise you better as to whether they think it is worth appealing or not - and get more than one opinion. I think it boils down to do you think you have a grounds to appeal and do you have strong evidence to prove it? And would it also be apparent during the panel meeting that you and your supervisors could still have a good working relationship if you won the case? This was something that was a factor in the panel I sat in on. And personally, I wouldn't want to continue when my supervisors had not wanted me to - unless I was right near the end and had already invested so much that there was no way I was going to let go of it without a fight.

My only advice though would be that if you do go ahead an appeal, be ready to move on with a Plan B in case not successful. Good luck in making your decision.



Thank you for your response. I assume this has happened to you?

My student union has said that it's quite unlikely to succeed as the circumstances cannot be proved with documents (e.g dropping and picking up a toddler). However, I think the only thing I can think of appealing is they are considering their decision based on the entire year when I resolved the circumstances in the last 3 weeks. I could go upon claiming that they are terminating me when I had the circumstance but now I do not which was just 3 weeks.

Perhaps also show my commits from that period to now.

Thread: Got requested to terminate my studies?

posted
11-Oct-19, 15:33
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 week ago
Quote From Tudor_Queen:
I don't know about odds - it would all depend on the specific case, I think. You could speak to the people in the student union who deal with the appeals, and ask them how often it is that a student wins their case. I don't have personal experience of being a student in the appeal, I was just a student representative who sat in on an appeal once. In this case, the student lost because basically it boiled down to his word against the supervisors', and there wasn't hard evidence to support his word (or theirs incidentally). I would really try and get advice from the academy or student union or whoever it is that deals with these things in your university.


Do you think it's better to start again? I feel the time and effect to convince the panel are tricky not to mention time-consuming. I don't know whether it's best to do another PhD again since I only used one year.

Thread: Got requested to terminate my studies?

posted
11-Oct-19, 12:07
edited about 1 minute later
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 week ago
Quote From Tudor_Queen:
I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. The appeal process is not a nice one, as you are pitted against your institution (or so it feels) and have to end up attending a panel where it feels very much like this. I would only do this if I felt I had a very good chance of a) winning and b) being able to continue on with a good relationship with my supervisors. So one idea is that you could go down that route and see what happens. Or you could think about pursuing a new PhD later on - make a new start. I think that's my take on things without knowing full details. I hope this helps.



Hi,

Thanks for the responses. I believe I can do it in two years time. Based on what they said on the panel meeting, it seems there are not considering my personal circumstance that well. They want documentation on it but it hard to evaluate this because I can't prove it through the document (e.g related to a toddler).

I solved these problems a few weeks ago. From that point to now I've made a lot of progress on the work.

Has anyone been successful in their appeal? What are the odds of winning?

Thread: Got requested to terminate my studies?

posted
11-Oct-19, 00:23
edited about 35 seconds later
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 week ago
Hi all,

I sadly got some bad news and feel really sad. I've got told that my PhD should be terminated. Unfortunately, my personal circumstance effected me this year which is not something I do not use reasoning on why I was behind. My main reasons were for termination:

1) Lack of knowledge:- I really didn't know how important the background knowledge until it was too late.
2) Not enough work:- they refer to the research as "heuristic" and not much work involved.

They gave me a chance to repeat the process but unfortunately my personal circumstance and catching up my work didn't give me enough time to reflect time on going over the maths. I did however managed to get the personal circumstance resolved but the time was too late.

I did get told I can appeal but I'm not sure if the effect is worth it? My personal circumstance is probably going to be ignored and I think my relationship to my supervisor is sort of drifted away (he doesn't seem to care anymore).

The "not enough work" confuse me the most, I was doing exactly what my supervisor wanted me to do and yet I get the result?

Anyway, I feel really sad about the news but also I actually put a lot of effect on the research when the personal circumstances and it was a lot of work. That's just gone down the drain.

Thread: Examiners judging my research on the wrong elements?

posted
16-Sep-19, 22:53
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 month ago
Quote From rewt:
Hi Azhan,

Did they ask for corrections or any form of remediation? If it isn't too much, I would do what they say and learn from it. It is very common in academia to get bad reviewers who do not understand your research and there is nothing you can do about it. You can explain to them why they are wrong but it is usually easier to do what they say and move on with your life. If they are going to fail you it is entirely different but otherwise I would consider it a disagreement of opinion.


Thank you for your message. So, it's a yearly presentation but they need to be satisfied in order to continue. Even showing interesting research and results they are just ignoring that. I wish they mentioned this earlier (just like the remaining proposal), otherwise, then I could of decide if it ws right for me. I don't believe this research is maths intense just mainly Computer Science.

I think the panel decides to continue but I personally think they will terminate me from the project.

Thread: Examiners judging my research on the wrong elements?

posted
13-Sep-19, 12:24
by azhan
Avatar for azhan
posted about 1 month ago
Hi everyone,

I would like some advice from other researchers. I applied for a funded Ph.D. last year. Now one year in, I had my first-year viva presentation which presented my work in that year. Afterward, they start testing my background knowledge on my maths. After a couple of days, the department said that my examiners were not satisfied. They make their judgment on my background knowledge rather than accomplishments achieved. Here what bothers me, the research proposal didn't mention anywhere that I need maths background. It was solving problems what a company (partners) were facing.

They didn't have concerns about what I did (that current) but my background knowledge in maths which they tell me 12 months (in) doing the research. I feel like I'm being judged on the wrong elements. They are judging me on elements that were mentioned in the research proposal and tell me 12 months in?

What should I do? I do believe this is a major concern (want elements that were not required and tell 12 months in)? This is not very fair at all.

Tell me your thoughts?

Thank you.
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