Overview of kathryn15

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Unemployed :(
K

Quote From KimWipes:
Time has changed, old models of society, work, jobs, social class, lifestyle, jobs, retirement, income, family etc etc are changing beyond our recognition and no matter how much we whine and complain nothing is going to change.

That may be true, but I still feel entitled to be angry and bitter. From being a child I was sold the idea that education leads to decent employment and a good salary, but instead it's been a waste of time and money and has made me unemployable. I'm aware that many people have had the same experience, but that doesn't make me any less bitter. Maybe that is ultimately the problem.

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From Eska:
Hi Kathryn, No one should feel reduced to a panic attack at the thought of socialising with colleagues.

It's just a sinking feeling... I can't go home at 5pm, instead I have to socialise with colleagues after work and it's just another chore. I have to put on my fake "social" face and pretend I'm interested in small talk, and think of things to say. It's exhausting. I'd prefer to be at home with my cat and family.

One of the reasons I liked being a PhD student was because I was mostly left alone to get on with my work without anyone interfering. I actually do ok with teaching because it's very structured interaction where we're discussing pre-defined topics. I don't have to be chatty or witty and nobody has to like me.

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From awsoci:
I know that it's difficult to be personable in interviews, but sometimes we have to be able to put on a good show just to get ourselves through the door. I do think that perhaps a lack of enthusiasm for the role is coming through in your interviews.

I know I'm introverted and have already tried my best to be polite and friendly, thinking I was doing a good job. But I'm still getting feedback from employers saying I come across as withdrawn and awkward, and I need to smile more and say hello and shake hands. I did this already! Is there a special way of shaking hands that I'm not aware of? Is my smile not genuine enough? I'm already outside of my comfort zone and making a huge effort to act like an extrovert, but apparently it isn't enough and I'm not really sure what more I can do?

I completely agree that my lack of enthusiasm is coming across to employers. Part of this is that I'm not convinced I can do the job. I know a lot about my specific area of IT study and about teaching, but little about repairing computers or programming, which is what the majority of jobs seem to be. I'm not creative and greatly doubt if I could do the visual design part of a web designer's job. I'm not a strong programmer and don't know the languages being used nowadays, and would struggle to learn them. I would hate sitting in an office with other people and having to talk to them. If I attend an interview and they talk about how they have drinks after work and it's an important part of team building, I have a panic attack and feel sick. I don't want to go for drinks and socialise - it's my idea of hell and I just want to do my work and go home. In my mind friendship has no place in the workplace!

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From Fled:
Didn't read all the responses but how exactly are your publications out of date?

They're all between 5 and 8 years old and not admissible for the REF, which is all that university employers seem to care about. They don't care if you're a good researcher, an experienced teacher, a hard worker... they only care how many publications you have for the REF. Some university job adverts now say you will not be eligible to apply unless you have a minimum of four recent publications. Some adverts even say the post is only open to those who graduated from their PhD within the last two years. This is an obvious attempt to stop those with "out-of-date" PhDs continually applying.

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From IntoTheSpiral:
Do academics in your old uni have any contacts in industry?


I don't really have any contact with academics at my old uni. My PhD supervisor actually left for a new job before I even finished my PhD; she was supposed to be like a "distance supervisor" until I finished writing up, but once she'd started her new job she wasn't interested in me any more and just ignored all of my emails and efforts to contact her. In the end I was given sort of a locum supervisor to help me finish writing up and get through the viva. This obviously hindered my efforts to get an academic job as my supervisor didn't help me via her contacts, and when I applied for jobs by myself she just ignored all requests for a reference. The last research paper I published still had to have her name as an author because she had supervised the experiments, and it was reported to me that she was overheard telling people she had no involvement with me or the work, and it was only a technicality that her name was on it.

I'm not aware of undergraduates receiving any help in finding jobs either; I've bumped into a number of undergraduates whom I personally taught and who were unemployed or under-employed. Those who had jobs seemed to have got them by themselves with no help from the university; many of them had been forced to move away and when I bumped into them they had only come home for Christmas.

The major difficulty for myself (and for undergraduates too) is that there are very few big employers in the local area and the majority of advertised jobs are for technicians or for programmers in small businesses. There is certainly nowhere that has ever advertised a research vacancy. I'm hundreds of miles away from anywhere like Microsoft Research or BAE, and can't move due to family commitments.

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From bewildered:
I think you have to move on from wanting an academic job. Others have said that if you are seeing everything you go for as an unappetising plan B, then you're probably not presenting yourself as well as you can.

I have moved on from wanting an academic job. I've accepted that I won't get one. But this acceptance has come at the price of realising that my PhD was a total waste of time, effort and money. I'm very bitter at having wasted years of my life essentially training for an academic job that never materialised.

You're right, I do see the jobs I apply for as an unappetising Plan B, because they're basic jobs which require very few skills - that's all that's available, and it just emphasises the fact that my PhD was a total waste of time. I'd feel better if I was applying for jobs that actually provided some intellectual challenge and prospects, and which were even remotely related to my skills and experience. Instead I'm applying for any job I think I might stand a chance of getting, even if I already know I'd hate it, and my only motivation is money. I already I know I can cope with forcing myself to do something I hate for money, because I've been doing it for four years already. I regularly cry because I'm so underpaid and badly treated with no prospects, but it keeps me off benefits so I force myself to continue. I'd just like more security and full-time hours, so I keep applying for other jobs. However, I can't even secure a job I don't want, because I "lack commercial experience" and I'm obviously not interested in the job. Apparently just wanting money isn't a good enough reason to have applied...

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From AOE26:
Sorry to sound harsh but you spent a lot of time, energy and money studying for a PhD in something you don't sound in the slightest bit interested in.

That's like saying a cancer researcher has no interest in science because they have no interest in becoming a lab technician for a company that produces lipstick. It's all science and it's all the same, right?

Equally, my lack of interest in the commonly advertised entry level IT jobs (which tend to be mostly computer repair, web development and programming) is in no way indicative of a lack of interest in my specific PhD subject. I'd love a job in my specific field but they're hard to come by. So I apply for generic IT jobs because that's all that's available, and I think my lack of enthusiasm comes across to employers. I would take one of these generic jobs for the money, and would work hard but wouldn't really care about my work beyond the paycheck. To me that seems fine because most people don't love their jobs and only work for the money. But for some reason employers want you to be totally thrilled about a job installing Microsoft Office updates and replacing cables. Yes, it's still technically an IT job, but it's as different from my chosen field as cancer research is from developing lipstick.

Re. the academia vs. industry issue - "if" I want an industry job is not a question I have the luxury of considering. I must have a job to pay the bills. I can't get an academic job, therefore industry is my only option. Even if I hate it, I have to do it for the money. I have to apply for programming and computer repair jobs even though I have absolutely no interest, because my qualifications are in IT and those are the only jobs available that I'm qualified for. Unfortunately this lack of interest is obvious to employers.

Unemployed :(
K

I'm not popular and never have been, even at school. I smile, shake hands, make eye contact, make small talk, but I still come across as withdrawn and not bubbly, whether I'm at an interview or a party. I don't see what else I can do - I'm a natural introvert and with the best will in the world I can't make myself into a social butterfly, nor do I have any desire to be one. I know many people who are not universally beloved (in fact in some cases their staff hate them) but they still have jobs. I understand that people like to work with a pleasant colleague, but I am pleasant and apparently that isn't enough - and it should be, because ultimately I'm there to work not to chat!

One of the major problems is that it would have been much more feasible to start at the bottom in my 20s. In my 30s I've advanced beyond the life stage where I could survive on an entry level salary and have the motivation to work my way up. Also - and I realise this sounds entitled but I do have a lot of resentment - what was the point of the PhD if I still have to start at the bottom? I might as well have skipped the PhD and started at the bottom several years ago, and I'd have worked my way up by now! I'm extremely angry about what a total waste of time and money the PhD was.

In addition, I think perhaps my lack of enthusiasm for most jobs comes across to employers. In most cases I applied because I need a paycheck and I'm capable of doing the job. Most people don't love their jobs! Why isn't it enough to be qualified and willing to work extremely hard? I don't see why I have to be excited about a job to work hard at it. I'm selling my labour, not my soul.

No Job 5 months after graduating.
K

Four years since my viva and I'm still unemployed. I survive by tutoring teenagers and working as a supply teacher as and when they call me to offer a bit of work. It pays peanuts but keeps me from the humiliation of having to claim benefits and admit I have a PhD but no job. I worry that my neighbours think I'm lazy because I always seem to be at home. I worry that I won't be able to give my own child a decent life and a good education because I have no money.

I grew up dirt poor and vowed to work hard to make sure my own child never has to go through what I did. I feel like I've let everyone down, let myself down, and disappointed my parents who had such high hopes for me. My mother has always wanted to go to Hawaii, so back when I still had high hopes of a good career I promised I'd take her as soon as I got a job. She's had a photo of her dream Hawaii vacation on her wall for the past 20 years and it breaks my heart every time I see it, because she's going to die without ever going there. I told my daughter she could have piano lessons when I finished my PhD and got a job, and she's still waiting too. I feel so guilty because I let them both down.

I suppose my point is that you're not the only one who is suffering. Cold comfort, I know. As a smart person I know that the only solution is to write the PhD off and start again - maybe start a small business doing something completely unrelated. It's so hard though - I spent so long focusing on my field that I don't know what else to do.

Ph.d Overrun Funding?
K

For my final year of writing up I was self funded with a bank loan. I spent the absolute minimum to survive - no nights out, no new clothes or treats, and I lived on toast and got quite skinny because I couldn't afford food. It was depressing but I had no other choice unless I wanted to quit. My colleagues tried other strategies such as shacking up with an older woman in order to live in her house for free, donating eggs for IVF, selling their entire worldly possessions on Ebay, etc. I wish I was kidding...

Can I finish this PhD by September?
K

I spent an entire month before my thesis submission working 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't recommend it! Adrenaline and panic can work wonders when your deadline is approaching. The conclusion is actually one of the easiest bits to write as you're reusing stuff from other chapters and basically summarising and discussing. I think everyone has to go back and add bits to their literature review to make it more current - I had to anyway.

The thing that helped me most was having an assistant - a delegated friend or relative to whom you can say "fetch me the surveys from 2012", "check this for spelling mistakes", "find the paper with Jones 2010 written on the front", "change all the headings in this document to size 12 bold", or even "make me a cup of tea". It made me feel less stressed to know I had that support and could ask for anything I needed, and it was easier to stay motivated because I felt like I wasn't working alone. It doesn't have to be someone who has any clue about the work you're doing, just someone who is willing to support you.

Unemployed :(
K

Quote From Montanita:
I was wondering if you have tried to apply for jobs in other countries? .


This has been suggested to me before - as a British PhD I would have more value in other countries such as China, Africa and the Middle East. But why should I have to leave my country to get a job? Non-PhDs don't have to leave their country to find work. There are many qualified professionals working right here - dentists, lawyers, headmasters, bankers, computer programmers - why should I have to leave my country just because I have a PhD? I find it bizarre that other professions want to come to this country for job opportunities but PhDs need to leave the country for job opportunities. Why can't there be sufficient opportunities for educated people here? Do we value PhDs so little in the UK?

To answer the question - no, I haven't applied for jobs in other countries as I have a mortgage on a house, a child in school and a husband who has a job here, and no desire to leave my home country.

Unemployed :(
K

One professor actually told me (off the record) that they already had enough lecturers with local accents and it was damaging their image as a multi-cultural institution which attracts talented staff from around the world. There were undoubtedly other reasons for them not employing me, but that one seemed particularly unfair as it's out of my control.

I've applied for numerous jobs in industry - my skills have value but it appears that my personality puts employers off. One employer said they were impressed by the quality of my past work but they felt that I wasn't personable enough, I was too withdrawn and not "bubbly", and they felt my personality was a better fit for the academic environment I had worked in previously. I already know this, but there are no jobs in academia! I'm aware that I'm quiet and teacher-ish, but I can't make myself be "bubbly" no matter how much I want a job! Add this to my lack of recent commercial experience and I have no chance.

The difficulty with freelancing is that it's hard to advertise yourself as a freelance consultant with zero past experience, in competition with large established consultancies. I'm not good at selling myself and not outgoing enough to convince a company to hire me. I've tried applying for consultant jobs but apparently I'm not "bubbly" enough to work with clients. This doesn't bode well for me getting any freelance work, and indeed I have been unsuccessful thus far. Not that there are many freelance opportunities in my field anyway.

I have absolutely no idea what to do. Retrain in another field? Difficult if you can't afford another degree, and feels like such a waste. I read these news articles about unemployed PhDs committing suicide and I totally understand why. You're probably one of the brightest students of your cohort, hence why you went on to do a PhD, you've been top of the class your whole life, and now you're totally worthless.

Unemployed :(
K

Worked hard to complete masters degree and PhD in Computing, and worked for two years between degrees, doing everything from bar work to IT-related jobs. Published several papers including collaborations with other universities, was a student volunteer at conferences, taught at my university for four years and also completed a teaching qualification.

Four years after completing my PhD I'm still unemployed.

I support myself as a supply teacher covering A-levels. Work is unreliable, salary is barely more than minimum wage once you factor in the marking, students are disinterested, and I'm not entitled to any benefits such as sickness or holiday pay.

I've applied for numerous postdocs and lectureships without success. Perhaps they already had someone in mind for the job but were required to advertise it anyway. Perhaps there was an over-supply of qualified candidates so they were able to hire someone with significantly more experience. Perhaps they wanted to enhance their multi-cultural staff and I wasn't foreign or exotic enough. I've been told several times that only the cream of the crop will land a lectureship nowadays so I might as well give up. My published papers are now out of date and I have no opportunity to produce more. I've been out of academia so long that I have no chance of returning.

Applying for commercial jobs hasn't yielded success either. I've been repeatedly told I'm overqualified and not suited to work in the real world, or they won't hire someone more qualified than the boss, or I lack commercial experience, or I come across as too studious and not bubbly enough. I've also been turned down for "menial" jobs because I don't really want the job, wouldn't be happy, wouldn't stick around, wouldn't fit in with the other staff, etc.

I feel like I'm out of options and have no future. My PhD was a total waste of my life and I don't know what else to do.