elloooooo all!! thought id give a short update to the people who have read my depressive rants before and who tried to help me get through them ...
3 weeks ago i applied for a job as customer support in the UK with a biotech company, and decided against doing a phd. 2 weeks ago they flew me in for a sollicitation talk. flashforward 2 weeks of nervousness and worrying i might not be good enough (there was actually some phd who applied for the same job lol), 2 hours ago i got a phone call with the job offer :D:D:D
whoop whoop!!!

if you apply and you get turned down chances are your current supervisor finds out. and i dont think hes gonna be very happy with you...keep in mind you'd have to stick around with him for another 4(?) years.
thing is, yes the uk has their phd program one year shorter. but that doesnt necessarily mean that it makes it better/faster indeed. loads n loads of phd's end up extending to write up; or end up without funding at all and still gotta write up. while the phds with 4 years (at least the one in holland) has more time involved for writing and they actually expect you to write up within the given time without the need to extend. chances are, you might be quicker done with the 4 year than the 3 year phd, and if your group is doing good work as well, you have a good suervisor and your project is working well, then why would you want to change anyways? only cause of the cambridge name? a big name doesnt mean they will automatically do good work as well

i'm not a PhD student, but i can understand really well what you are going through. i have been thinking about doing a phd for the past 3 years now, had my ups and downs. during my last internship my supervisor was barely existant and i had to do the project by myself, basically work like a phd does. thats when i realized phd wasnt the right choice for me and im not gonna do one, at least for now. but during that internship i had to battle with many negative emotions like you described as well, a project that just doesnt work well, no procedures/protocols in place, had to do and optimize everything myself..having to do that on a 8-month long project wears you out. the more time you waste on having to fix issues, the less time you have to gain data. in the end i had mainly negative results and had to write my report and my presentation about optimization only. the advice i can give you from this perspective is: negative results are also results. many people dont see it this way, but how many times does someone do some experiment and it just doesnt work for the 100th time... and then someone from another department comes by for a visit, takes a look at your work and says "oh yea, i tried that a few years back ... that just doesnt work, could have told you that" ..... duh! .... everyone is wasting time because nobody likes to write about negative results. aaaanyways ... take a look at your project and what you have found out so far. is it possible to make a 'negative' story out of it? i know thats very difficult, and i dont know what topic you have, but take a look if thats possible or not.

BUT .... if you cant make any story from it at any cost: just quit mate. you said yourself that you werent sure about this phd basically from the start on. for the past years you have been in constant doubt and worry. and i know from own experience, thats a very unhealthy place to be in, it can lead you down some very dark paths... from what i can read between your lines, i think you WANT to quit, you have made that decision inside already a long time ago. you're just afraid to do so, because of what others might say and be disappointed in you. but let me tell you one thing: it IS okay to quit! people might be disappointed, but that will pass. and besides, its YOUR life. YOU need to feel comfortable in it. dont let yourself get pressured by others, if your supervisor thinks your project is going so well although you have told him time and time again that it didnt, let him do it himself. do what makes YOU happy, do what makes you feel GOOD. and this phd obviously doesnt. life is way too short to worry about what others might think, worry about what could have been. you had a good idea, you got the funding you wanted, you followed the path. see what you achieved already? i doubt many people can do what you did. then you tried the project, and you got unlucky and it didnt work out, thats life, thats phds...not everything works out the way we want it to. but now its time to move on, go do something else instead, something that makes you feel better, and in a few years, when and IF you feel like it, you could try again.

dont be afraid to say "no"

want to ask for some advice ... ive been studying in molecular life science fyi
as a BSc you usually end up as a technician. instead, you can also go to a PhD, which is usually directly linked to a MSc title.
one of the paths im thinking about, is that i could do lab work with my MSc, and not go for a PhD. and later i could still think about doing a PhD. but when i'm looking for vacancies in academia, i usually find this: a "research assistant" position requires BSc (so i could do that indeed). but a "research associate" position, which i believe is a step higher than an assistant position, usually reads "requires PhD"..... eeeeehm, hellooooo? what happened to the MSc? :/
anyways, my question is ... if there is a position about a research associate and it says "requires PhD" do you think i can apply for it anyways, although i "only" got a MSc?
ive done 3 research internships (about 1.7 years), thats more experience than a BSc, plus, the associate pays better, and i think i 'deserve' that job title, and not 'just' the assistant.
hope you know what i mean lol

its like buying a zirconia that has been advertized as diamond

geez mate, you speak right from my soul :/ thats exactly whats going on in me now ... fed up with studying, wanna earn my money finally, but worried that it might be the wrong decision in the long run, worried that once i choose to get out of the science path i wont be able to get back in and do the phd at a later point, due to the 'mainstream students' you are getting pushed into directions you dont want, phd phd phd phd phd ffs i cant hear it anymore!! part of this whole shite is also the fault of my university, they dont prepare us well enough for alternatives. bleugh

i wouldnt call that a phd, but a fake .... if you decide to go for a phd, then it should be a proper one, and that means proper work, effort and examination ... nothing worse than having someone crown himself with some huge title that could have been obtained from a pinball machine :/

======= Date Modified 08 Jul 2010 09:05:25 =======
if you are sure that you can pull it off, then i would put down your expected marks indeed. thats what i did as well. just make sure you dont lie, make sure you write down on your CV "expected 2:1"
a CV should of course be a true representation of your life and education. but there is nothing wrong about advertizing yourself either, as long as its not a lie.
my 2 cents :)

i dont really know much difference in the setup of the PhDs... but since i am german, and i have been studying science in the netherlands, i wouldnt want to make a phd in germany. germans like to stick to their own language, the whole country is translating everything into german. movies are synchronated. i dont know how the phd environment is like, i guess it depends a lot on where you are gonna end up, whether the department is gonna be internationally oriented or not... i heard of other students who have been studying something similar to what i have been studying, and i was shocked when they told me that they had to use some study books that have been translated from the original english into a german version!!! thats just suuuuuch a big NO NO for me as science student, english is the science world, so this shocked me big time and kept me away. even now, that i should find work or phd myself, i am highly doubting germany, whether its justified or not i dont know.
if you think about doing a phd abroad, try to consider the netherlands? they are very international oriented, good in english, and their phds are built up well. phds in the netherlands take 4 years, and you start with about 2200 euro/month in your first year, end with about 2500 e/m in the 4th year.

which city/university/field did you get those phds offered at?

thanks guys, thats a good idea indeed... i just downloaded some document i had to fill in, gonna walk by my university in an hour (when they open up) and gonna make an appointment...
geeeez, why didnt i think of this before? never crossed my mind :/ hope its not too late, i terminated my study room already and gonna be moving back to my parents in few weeks. hope the uni can be quick...
thank you guys

i feel like i am sitting in some black hole and i cant get out, so i thought id post here and see if anyone can help.
ive been studying molecular life science. 3 years bachelor (got my BSc 2:1), 3 years master of science (ill be done with the study next week), finishing it first class honors. the obvious next choice is: phd. everybody of the other students in my class go for one. however: i actually dont want to do a phd. i know it might be better for me in the future, but i just dont want to..sitting ridiculous hours in lab, article deadlines...thats 3-4 years stress i dont want.
so lez say i stick to my MSc and go from there... what can i do with that? in science, id be a technician...or customer support. this may sound vain, but i 'feel' that thats no work for me..id get bored soon, id need more than that. but not as much as a phd.

so lez say, screw science ... what can i do with my msc outside of science?! i have no idea.

things are getting worse for me, since i have absolutely no idea what i want to do with my life. i feel like i have no passion about anything, no hobbies, nothing that id think "ha! thaaaaats what i wanna do full time, that would be fun and id like doing such work". i hve no dream and no goal in life. the only thing i know is that i wanna be independent, i wanna earn my own money, i wanna have some lil appartment and in my free time i will do whatever i want to keep me happy. there are enough things that will keep me busy, they just dont pay. so what about my work life? most of life is spent at work, so it should be something you like doing, that satisfes you. and thats where i am stuck.

i keep turning in circles, from phd to msc to outside-science and back again, never finding an answer that satisfes me. im starting to think that cause i have spent 6 years in science i got a background i can fall back to, i should stay in science. but i dont feel anymore like i made the right choice, and i dont know what i could do outside of science. so if i stay in science i feel i MUST do a phd, cause technician will be too boring for me, and phd is better for my future....and then i get back to that i dont actually want a phd.

as you can see, i am stuck in the same damn loop and i cant find a way out..and its driving me insane. ive been thinking about this problem for 2 years now, and still got no answer. a few months ago i ended up in a depression, back then i was scared, literally SCARED to finish my study cause i didnt know what to do next. somehow (dont ask me how) i managed to get out of the depression, pulled myself together to finish the study. but now i feel like im startin to slide back down that hole again. and i dont know what to do.

i dont know why im posting here. ive seen some posts from phd students here who think about quitting their phd and to give up, maybe thats why. maybe there are people here that might understand me.

thank you for your time.

i'd do the same as the previous poster suggested. but besides that, you say you only mailed that 2nd sup of yours? i'd go on and call him instead. that's always faster than mailing, and at least you can be sure that he got the message and didn't forget about it. good luck with it!!

======= Date Modified 28 44 2009 10:44:31 =======
hey all!

when i first started on this forum i still had no clue about the UK PhD system :) by now i've done my homework and i know some more about it, so i got some more/new questions... this time about my chances of receiving a scholarship/studentship (is that the same thing, by the way?!) for a PhD by research at a british university.

when i'm done with my study i will be in a totally different starting position to standard british students (starting from nationality), and when both of us apply for the same scholarships, i don't really know how competitive my qualifications are, i.e. how big my chances are of getting a scholarship. i was hoping you guys could give me some opinions about my chances, since you know the "british standard student" best, and can compare me to the standard easier than i can.

so, here it goes:
- german nationality
- studied and lived in the netherlands
- study: molecular life sciences
- degrees: bachelor of science (3 years), and master of science (2 years)
- grade: 1st class master of science (so far i'm above 80%, but if i get very unlucky in the coming months i will probably still end up with a good 2:1 though)
- practical experience: 3 internships, all during my study time. 1 small one (2 months), 2 big ones (~7 months each) at different research departments (genetics, immunology, virology)
- international experience: study abroad (netherlands), and internship in australia (that's where i'm sitting right now lol)
- additional qualifications: attended courses to be able to work with radionuclides and lab animals

i was also a student assistant for a 2nd year bachelor subject for about a month, helping the "kids" with their exercises (SPSS and matlab)

eeeeehm .... think that's about it...

so, my question is: what do you guys think?! is it possible that i might get a (university) scholarship and/or research council studentship when taking on british students??

any comments are welcomed and much appreciated :)

greets,
tydra

i agree that you should ask someone in your lab about this. usually there are protocols and receipes lying around at the lab on how to make certain buffers, as they are used frequently.
but if your pH is 5.2 and you need 7.4 and someone actually suggested using NaOH, then go for NaOH and neutralize your acids. i must say at this point though that i never made HEPES buffer myself yet, so i don't know how exactly you prepare it

i know the feeling all too well... i need to write 2 reviews in the next couple of months and i should have been done with at least one of them by now, but i can't get myself to finally working on them. it drives me nutts, or at least, it used to. i was feeling depressed and tired when i was thinking of that work ahead, didn't know where to start. yes, i was and still am afraid of it. but now i'm starting to losen up that clump in my stomach and i'm starting to gain confidence and i will start working on those soon, i'm sure of it.. i'm actually beginning to get that feeling back "hey, it's gonna be awesome wrting about that stuff, so much new things you can learn!!"

the way i changed (gradually, but still) my state of mind was by ignoring the work, as crazy as it sounds.. there was a time when i was stressing about it every hour every day, couldn't find any peace. instead, i told myself to stop thinking about it, do other things for a while. i picked up sport again, i'm going jogging and play volleyball. i found that sport helped me a lot to losen up that depressive/tired state i was in. i feel loads more energetic now than i used to a couple of months ago.

furthermore, i can only agree with the previous posters: set yourself small goals, and make them one step at a time. and everytime you achieved one goal, allow yourself a victory dance, or get yourself a treat, whatever, anything that makes you feel "yeeessssss!! in your face suckaaaa!!!" :D
just one step at a time, don't think too much ahead. everything will sort itself out, just give it time :)

good luck with it mate!